Why is it 9th level? Anyone used it much?

[Hypersmurf]

Why is it 9th level?

Heh. I knew before I even did the rollover thing that this would be a Foresight thread

That's kinda appropriate, really

-Hyp.

 

[jgsugden]

Once foresight is cast, you receive instantaneous warnings of impending danger or harm to the subject of the spell. You are never surprised or flat-footed. In addition, the spell gives you a general idea of what action you might take to best protect yourself and gives you a +2 insight bonus to AC and Reflex saves.

I read this as doing the following things:

1.) Instantaneous warnings of impending danger or harm: The DM tells you what he is planning the round before he does something if it will present a threat to the PC. Instantaneous and impending indicate to me that you should have little warning, but enough to act to save yourself: usually 1 round.

2.) Never surprised or flat-footed: self explanatory.

3.) Best action you might take: The DM gives advice on what you can do to avoid the threat that he has presented to you. This includes telling you how to deal with a foe if you have a way of dealing with it quickly.

In my game, I role a saving throw (and record the result) for any significantly threatening creature at this point and then tell the PC if the creature will fail a saving throw versus his best suited spell, staff or other item (assuming there is no other obvious better tactic available to the PC than his best spell, staff or other item). Then, I apply that saving throw role to the first saving throw the creature makes during the turn of the PC with foresight.

If the PC is going to be caught in a dragon's breath, I role up the damage and tell him how much damage he will take and suggest what I would do, if I had full knowledge of the situation, to avoid the danger.

4.) And the spell grants insight bonuses: self explanatory.

#2 and #4 are nice, but are not worth more than a 5th level spell by themselves. The juice is in parts #1 and #3. Foresight tells you limited things about the future, helping you avoid danger and threats. That is *incredibly* powerful.

For you comic/movie/old tv fans out there, think of Spiderman and his Spider Sense. Now, imagine that Spider Sense not only telling Spiderman that there is danger, but instead telling him exactly what to do to avoid the danger. Instead of those wavy black lines appearing around his head in the comics, he gets a thought bubble with a picture of what he needs to do to escape. Spider Sense on Steroids.

If your DM fails to consider your foresight, it is a very bad spell. If he follows it as written, you should be very happy with it.

A word of warning: Many DMs will find this spell to be annoying as it ruins all their careful crafting and planning. I tend to avoid this spell as a player because I think it makes the DM have less fun.

 

[the Jester]

The divine oracle/diviner imc usually uses two per day- one on himself, one on his liege (he's a cohort).

I think foresight is great. You learn how to stay out of trouble. The player always refers to it as his spidey-sense...

 

[spunky_mutters]

Having your players use foresight is great. It means you can feel free to be a real bastard.

They need to feel like they're getting they're 9th level spell's worth, so just open the gates to hell. I find players have more fun worrying about what they think (or in this case know) is going to happen, than what actually goes down.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Having your players use foresight is great. It means you can feel free to be a real bastard.

They need to feel like they're getting they're 9th level spell's worth, so just open the gates to hell. I find players have more fun worrying about what they think (or in this case know) is going to happen, than what actually goes down.

That's a bad thought. IME, players can spend quite enough time dithering over plans without having a long term 'what if' machine at their disposal.

I think I'm going to give my PCs a 'free' casting of this next time I havn't got much planned


It's interesting, there's very little left in 3.5 with interpretations this vague - it does 'feel 1st edition' to me...

 

[Li Shenron]

It sure doesn't seem as useful as the new 8th level spell "Moment of Prescience", thats for sure.

I quite disagree... MoP is very weak to be 8th level. For that price, I would let you take the bonus AFTER knowing the result of the dice. But let's go back to Foresight...

It's usability depends almost entirely upon the DMs desire, which makes its usefulness widely variable.

Totally true. As a DM I am very willing to make it useful a lot, after all it's a 9th level spell. Since it says "the spell gives you a general idea of what action you might take to best protect yourself ", I put the accent of those two words. Of course there is the (minor) bonus to AC and ST and the (major) immunity to surprise.

GENERAL could mean that the character does not know the exact spell to cast or action to do, but you may tell him something like "you get the feeling that you'd better be protected from fire before entering this dungeon" or "draw your weapons before it's too late". It doesn't say exactly how early you get the warning, it says instantaneous warnings but also that provided you act on the warning without delay you have the time to communicate the danger to others, but I may stretch the time a little if I felt like. However, it sounds early enough to also let a whole party become immune to surprise if the DM is generous.

PROTECT is pretty specific, therefore it should not spoil the plot or reveal what the party should do to easier defeat the BBEG for example. The spell doesn't grant any real protection by itself, only tells you what you should do if you can.

 

[UltimaGabe]

It sure doesn't seem as useful as the new 8th level spell "Moment of Prescience", thats for sure.

Not quite. You see... the idea behind Moment of Prescience is that you can add a huge bonus to your AC when someone attacks you, or you can get a huge bonus to your attack, or check, or whatever. The idea behind Foresight, however, is that you avoid the entire encounter altogether, and therefore you don't NEED the bonus to AC or skill checks. You don't need a high AC against the rogue when you aren't even walking down the same road as the rogue anymore.

 

[Plane Sailing]

To clarify my comment:

MoP is a clearly defined benefit, no DM intervention required or expected. When you want to use it you can get a big bonus on an AC or ST (and there are plenty of times when I'd really want that. "He casts destruction on you" "Gulp, I'll get the save bonus from MoP now")

Compare this to Foresight, where a whole lot depends upon DMs understanding of the spell and how they want to make it work. Just a glance at the thread shows that Inconsequenti-AL, jester47, jessemock, jgsugden and Li Shenron would all handle Foresight slightly differently. I think it is most likely that they would all handle moment of prescience in exactly the same way (unless someone explicitly chose to house-rule it).

I notice that you (ultimagabe) would allow foresight to avoid an encounter altogether, while others would give hints on avoiding upcoming threats in the middle of an encounter. I think that your interpretation is probably more extreme than the spell warrants (otherwise it may become the "don't gain any more xps through encounters" spell )

Cheers

 

[Li Shenron]

Almost every spell has a clearly defined benefit. This is a good a thing because players know what to expect and DMs have an easy time adjudicating the effects.

It's evident that Foresight is left vague. I am not sure this was done on purpose, but we can look at it in a positive way. After all, it's somehow similar to what happens with Wish and Miracle, isn't it? Both are 9th level spells which is the top in standard D&D (not counting epic games, although in 3.5 they have become quite standard...). Since they are at the high end of magic, the fact that they are partially left open can be seen as a tool for the DM to increase their effectiveness beyond the line of 9th level spells, perhaps on an occasional basis, and perhaps tailoring it to RP rather than simply caster level.

Don't get me wrong... to have clearly defined effects is in general a very good thing. But here we are talking about 17+ level mages and having some little thing left in the game to give magic some unpredictability can IMHO only improve the gaming experience.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Knowing what awaits you is pretty nice. You'll have time to buff and protect you. Combined with Time Stop, you can turn a deadly encounter into a walk in the park.