Why is it so hard to change a world?

[LuYangShih]

I was reading the Midnight forums over at againsttheshadow.org, and noted a phoenemon I have seen several times before. Several of the DMs there were arguing that the Night Kings should basically be demigods who the PCs could never hope to confront.

My question is, why? Why is it that no matter how great the quest, how noble the deeds, or how impressive the party may become, DMs will not let you change the campaign world in any meaningful way? The best DMs I have ever observed not only allow this, they encourage it. It is so tiring to finish a campaign in a world with the only difference being the DM now has a few more high level NPCs walking around the world.

 

[Nightfall]

Uhm reason I think if you do that you start to ruin the flavor of Midnight. Midnight isn't about killing the bad guys. It's survival. Pure and simple. It's less about being heroic than trying to help other ekee out a meger existance. Sure you might be worthy of being noticed much like Robin Hood. But killing a Night King? No way. At least not unless you replace said Night King with one of the PCs. Now that would be cool. But seriously, while there is something heroic about the setting, Midnight is almost a stangant place full of despair. That's part of the fun. Until they can kill of the Night Kings' Boss, there's no chance of any thing getting accomplished.

 

[DanMcS]

Some DMs read about a world, and like it, and have a story they want to tell in it. Anything the players want to do that deviates from this goal is discouraged or disallowed. They are just bad DMs.

You see this crap with any published world, though, not just Midnight. In FR you have the DM's PCs built in to the setting, for crying out loud, and if anyone will be allowed to accomplish great things, it is often them. With this kind of bad DM, that is.

Ekeing out a meager existance? Trying to survive as the entire goal, nothing better? If that's not what the players want to do, then you're forcing a boring-ass campaign on them. Stagnant and despairing might be fun for you as a DM, but it wouldn't be a campaign I, or most other people, would want to play in.

 

[Nightfall]

Dan,

True but this is why I don't play in Midnight. I would run it, but not sure I'd play it. All my PCs have effected change. In my games at least.

 

[LuYangShih]

I thought that one of the greatest promises of the Midnight campaign was that the PCs could truly become Heroes who changed the destiny of the world around them. I do not view Midnight as the second Ravenloft, but apparently others do.

 

[Nightfall]

*shrugs* Well I guess it's just a view some people believe in and others don't. Again different styles of Dming. For your own sake, do what you think is best. The only reason I'd probably not play is because I'd be more convinced that doing a moral act would ensure my demise. But then that's what you get with a demi-god/demon running the show.

 

[LuYangShih]

Is that not the point, though? Characters who, despite overwhelming odds and evil, stand against it anyway, knowing full well they will almost certainly die doing so, seem far more noble and inspiring to me than characters who follow the path of the just when it is convient.

Still, this is sidetracking too much into a discussion of Midnight. I have observed the "you can't change the world" in many settings. DMs seem unwilling to allow PCs to have long lasting or important changes upon the world they run. They seem to be set in a mindset of "this is how the world should be", and anything that might change that is waved away by DM fiat. I despise playing in games like this, and I doubt many others enjoy it either.

 

[Nightfall]

Lu,

No I certainly agree that such worlds hold as much fun for me as eating glass...or something equally as painful. Certainly this is why when the Scarred Lands came along I jumped right on. HERE was a world I and others through our submissions could make changes small and large. Here the heroes DO matter. And we aren't caught in the dictates of some overbinding novelization of heroes. (Same is true with Dragonlance until recently.) In any case, I know I'm glad to be in worlds where change IS possible.

But to side track this back into midnight a second, I do think that might be the point for some...but not everyone. I mean for me, it's more about the fight itself rather than affecting change. Why? Because look our own world. How much change CAN one person or an individual affect. Some say a lot. Some say a little. Most of it is just unknown. And if we have substantial proof of an evil force controlling our lives, does that mean we can affect any change at all? That's the kind of questions I think I would be doing as a player. For midnight. (Maybe as a DM too.)

 

[LuYangShih]

Sure, I can understand that. But I would like to know, as a player, that I have at least a chance to affect and change the world. Having DMs say "The Night Kings can never be defeated by you, period" really throws a wet blanket on how enjoyable the campaign can be.

As for the Scarred Lands, I suppose I should really pick up the setting. I do not know anyone else in my area who is interested in it, but I have heard a great deal of praise surrounding it. Perhaps I will pick it up just for brain candy.

 

[Nightfall]

Lu,

Well if you need ideas for Scarred Lands, I'm here for it. As for having a DM say that outloud...yeah that can be very discourgaging and not to mention make any enjoyment you have with the character fall flat on it's face.