Why is it so hard to change a world?

[Emiricol]

Well, I think the campaign ought to be whatever the players and DM agree upon, and all enjoy. For Midnight, I recommend trying it "as intended" if there is such a thing, before going outside the bounds. For a campaign that really effects, change, why though does it have to be killing a Night King? Liberating a village; luring Sarcosan warbands to your banner; rescuing a halfling who knows how to get to an important Black Mirror and destroying said mirror...

Changes don't have to be Cosmic in scope to be epic. But that's just me. For YOU, if you and your group want to slap a Night King around a bit, more power to you. Not my cup of tea, but nothing wrong with it either.

Of course, I mostly play in T13K, which is built around DMs all sort of building the world together as they go. Couple of weeks ago I had goblins sack a border village after a month-long adventure, and it was all sparked by some sideline plot comment another DM made in passing a month before

 

[LuYangShih]

I am very unfamilar with Scarred Lands. Most of what I know comes from reading topics on the boards. Titans are evil, the Gods destroyed or imprisoned them all, and now most of the evil races are attempting to free them, correct? I would assume that the baseline of the world is preventing the evil races from freeing the Titans, right?

By the way, on an off topic note, did you get your name from a novel called The Legend Of Nightfall by Mickey Zucker Reichert?

 

[Nightfall]

Em,

You do raise a valid point that not every change has to be earth shattering. I mean take a look at show like Quantum Leap. There the hero gets to leap about in time, in a specific time frame I'll grant you, but he effects change that is both personal and of interest to the people he's involved with. Just because he doesn't stop the Cuban Missile Crisis or help end the Korean War, doesn't mean Sam Beckett is doing nothing with his life. But I guess it's different when you have access to magic.

 

[Nightfall]

I am very unfamilar with Scarred Lands. Most of what I know comes from reading topics on the boards. Titans are evil, the Gods destroyed or imprisoned them all, and now most of the evil races are attempting to free them, correct? I would assume that the baseline of the world is preventing the evil races from freeing the Titans, right?

Actually Lu, that's one of the more interesting and problematic parts to the Scarred Lands. Are the titans evil? To ask that one must ask "Is a windstorm evil? Or an earthquake?" Because in a sense that's what the titans are. Sure they possess intelligence, but they also are of alien thinking. To them creating and destroying comes as naturally to them as it would to someone painting a picture. But there lies the difference. Titans affect change on a global level. So while their followers might indeed be cruel and wicked, many of their druids and some of their sorcerers aren't always that clear cut. Indeed many that don't undergo transformations (such as the hags of Mormo), are no more evil than a druid in the Realms trying to save a forest by keeping out unnatural creatures. As for the baseline, it's actually quite easy to free a Titan. Mesos, the elemental/primal aspect of magic or sorcery, is probably very close to being reborn as his energy is merely dispersed. Mormo herself has many parts to her, and some of them are in various cultists. Kadum could even arise, if given someway to stop the bleeding and get a new heart. The titans CAN rise and the world can tremble at their wrath. But that just means the heroes have to fight THAT much harder.

By the way, on an off topic note, did you get your name from a novel called The Legend Of Nightfall by Mickey Zucker Reichert?

Actually yes that's how it started out. But I've kind of evolved my own little mythos around my handle. Plus there's a Bl'ayne Nightfall, my NPC counterpart in the Scarred Lands. (Pick up Shelzar: City of Sin. Page 95. That's me.)

 

[BSF]

This issue is one of the things that ultimately turned me off FR. Too many high level NPC's that are so freakin' powerful the PC's have a difficult time being the big heroes. Then there were the players that knew FR and would try to tell me how to run it. (I'm sorry, I thought _I_ was running the adventure. Why don't you run it and I will play? No? Then please sit down, thank you.)

I used to think Elminster was cool, until I remembered that every character that plays in a long term campaign wants to _be_ Elminster. Not the second best Wizard in the world, much less a struggling contender for the top 20 spellcasters. OK, that isn't quite true. Not every character seeks out fame, power and all that. But a whole lot of them sure do!

Nowadays, I have no problem killing off a powerful NPC. If it is a bad guy, I _want_ the characters to be gunning for them. If it is a good guy, I want the bad guys to be gunning for them so that the characters will try to avenge their deaths! If the characters then begin to move in to fill that void, all the better! I want the change. I want it to be through the actions/inactions of the characters. I want to run games where the focal point of the story is the characters. Yes, there are NPC's involved in the stories. Yes, there are other events going on in the world. Heck, maybe there are even big events going on elsewhere that the characters get to hear aobut afterward. That is what makes it a dynamic environment. It seems to make the players excited about playing in it. I let my players know that they are changing the world and I give them feedback on how that happens.

But, not everyone feels the same way. Different DM'ing styles.

 

[Nightfall]

Nice post BSF. I do agree that becomes problematic for many players when you can't be better than so and so. It's easier when it's "They are gunning for you so look out!" type deal.

 

[BSF]

Actually, I don't necessarily feel like the characters have to be the best. But, if that is what the character wants, I will give them the opportunity.

I am wrapping up a campaign right now. The main good guy is still 3 levels higher than any of the party members. But, he has an army of undead being lead by 2 17th level Lich's (1 Divine, 1 Arcane) gunning for him. The heros (the characters) are doing everything in their power to save him, and the rest of the city. The heros are all lower level than the big combatants, but they are making a difference in a big way. Heck, some of them are willing to sacrifice themselves to save the main good guy. Despite my best efforts, I might not be able to kill off the NPC! I love it.

Even if they do save the main good guy, I have tried to give them plenty of opportunities to exceed the power of many of the other NPC's in the game. It was kind of amusing when one of the characters sought out an NPC that seemed powerful earlier in the game to ask for training. The two of them sat down to ascertain what the PC's skills were. By the time they got done with the conversation, the NPC basically said "I can't teach you very much, your powers and skills exceed my own. But if you have any pointers for me, I would be honored to hear them!". The players thought it was great! The PC's still treated the NPC's with respect and were happy to share information whenever possible.

I think a lot of it has just been the feeling that they can change the world around them, and that they can be the best if they pursue it hard enough. Now, most of them aren't as interested in being the best as they are in getting the "Job" done. The "Job" being saving the world (done that) and saving the local Lord (working on that.)

 

[Nightfall]

Still I think you bring to focus an idea that we as DMs some times forget. The little things matter JUST as much as big earth shaking things. I mean if you teach people to care, and defend them from evil, you inspire songs to make them do the great things. Just because you (the hero) didn't become King Arthur, doesn't mean you can inspire someone else to try to follow in that path. I think that's something else to consider when doing something in Midnight. Doing the small stuff as well as big stuff.

In any case BSF, nice story.

 

[Dirigible]

Having DMs say "The Night Kings can never be defeated by you, period" really throws a wet blanket on how enjoyable the campaign can be.

Ah, but where do you draw the line with this? If the GM said 'You can never kill the Gods, period" would that bother you? Theoretically, a good campaign, rule system and GM should be flexible enough so that you could find a Sword of Divine Evisceration +47, but if most people were GMing, the chances would be so miniscule, the path necessary so long and treacherous, that saying "never, period" is simply a linguistic short cut.

But, not everyone feels the same way. Different DM'ing styles.

Gotta agree. This sums it up best. For me, you could kill the Night Kings, but only after a very, very long and difficult campaign. And you'd probably fail. On the other hand, there are a few beings in my campaigns that I would but on the Pedestal of Invulnerability +47. I more or less use the Book of the Righteous pantheon, so that includes the Gods, plus a few uber-dragons, giga-liches and so forth.

 

[Nightfall]

Dirig,

This is all very true..but some people LIKE doing such things. If only to help ease a little tension...or to feel like they can do more than cast a few flashy spells or have some neato swords. This is not say you're not making valid points. Just offering another side of the equation.