Why is it so hard to change a world?

[Nightfall]

I don't think setting villians need to be stat'd, because someone always comes along and sees the numbers and goes "mmmm, I can take them."

Is that what you said Hand when you read the Blood Bayou? Or perhaps Calastia?

 

[Desdichado]

Nightfall: Those Meta posts are really driving behavior here, aren't they?

If it's a complaint about attitudes in general, I half agree philosophically. The whole idea of characters growing to become the mightiest heroes of the land, or gods, or whathaveyou and completely remolding the campaign setting to their image really turns me off, and to be fair, it might very well be based on some really lousy games I had in junior high.

At the same time, DMs who can't abide any change to their work of art, static campaign setting turn me off too -- so I'm kinda on the edge of this one philosophically.

In practice, the complaint comes off sounding a bit whiny though -- "I want to kill a Night King and take his stuff -- but the DM won't let me." True, it may not have been meant like that at all, but it comes off that way anyhow.

 

[Piratecat]

In practice, the complaint comes off sounding a bit whiny though -- "I want to kill a Night King and take his stuff -- but the DM won't let me." True, it may not have been meant like that at all, but it comes off that way anyhow.

But you see, "conquering the world" is VERY different than "changing the world." The latter can be very satisfying, and has everything to do with showing the PCs the consequences of their actions. Almost everything that the PCs do should change the world in some way, and might help or hinder them. This is as true for 1st lvl characters as it is for 20th, although the scale is different.

 

[Nightfall]

Nightfall: Those Meta posts are really driving behavior here, aren't they?

If it's a complaint about attitudes in general, I half agree philosophically. The whole idea of characters growing to become the mightiest heroes of the land, or gods, or whathaveyou and completely remolding the campaign setting to their image really turns me off, and to be fair, it might very well be based on some really lousy games I had in junior high.

At the same time, DMs who can't abide any change to their work of art, static campaign setting turn me off too -- so I'm kinda on the edge of this one philosophically.

In practice, the complaint comes off sounding a bit whiny though -- "I want to kill a Night King and take his stuff -- but the DM won't let me." True, it may not have been meant like that at all, but it comes off that way anyhow.

Well let's just say with 6,405...now 6406, posts, I want ensure SOME success in my life.

But I do think you raise a valid point about the fact we as DMs AND Players need to balance our needs against that of what is best not just a group but what is best for fun and enjoyment of this game as a ROLE Playing experience. *Now I feel like I'm discussing dothacksign... *

 

[Nightfall]

But you see, "conquering the world" is VERY different than "changing the world." The latter can be very satisfying, and has everything to do with showing the PCs the consequences of their actions. Almost everything that the PCs do should change the world in some way, and might help or hinder them. This is as true for 1st lvl characters as it is for 20th, although the scale is different.

True but I think the problem is people think that conquering equals change. That's the trouble with people is they inherantly believe that unless they have a measure of control over things, that nothing changes. When in fact change happens all the time. We just don't see it at play until maybe...well never unless you're immortal.

 

[Desdichado]

Oh, I agree -- which is why I say that DMs that hold to a completely static view of their campaigns bug me as much as players who want to rule the world. Either one is equally excessive.

 

[Nightfall]

But you see, "conquering the world" is VERY different than "changing the world." The latter can be very satisfying, and has everything to do with showing the PCs the consequences of their actions. Almost everything that the PCs do should change the world in some way, and might help or hinder them. This is as true for 1st lvl characters as it is for 20th, although the scale is different.

True but I think the problem is people think that conquering equals change. That's the trouble with people is they inherantly believe that unless they have a measure of control over things, that nothing changes. When in fact change happens all the time. We just don't see it at play until maybe...well never unless you're immortal. *post number 6,408...*

 

[Nightfall]

Oh, I agree -- which is why I say that DMs that hold to a completely static view of their campaigns bug me as much as players who want to rule the world. Either one is equally excessive.

Right but I think what you and I raising the question is this: "What is roleplaying?" Is it more than just a Dm's whims? Or the players'? Do these interactions have meaning beyond a simple roll of the dice or a skill or feat or some other ability. Let's take this further, when we look down the line at virtual worlds. Do these types of interactions, in a gaming environment, mean ANYTHING other than static unending nothingness..or constant strife to prove one's self. That I think is where we start to look at the essense of what games are about...and what meaning we dervive from doing this form of stuff. Is it more than a game or less? That's the question I think will drive us and others that come into contact with what is as much a social thing as a play thing.n *post number 6409...*

 

[Hand of Evil]

Is that what you said Hand when you read the Blood Bayou? Or perhaps Calastia?

Not me!

 

[MoonRaven]

Nightfall,
I don't know what you read into my post, but I was not suggesting that people run amok and kill things. Hmm...in fact, I stated specifically that this was a problem. I simply said that my players tend to destroy any elaborate plotlines I might put in my games. I think that players and GMs both should meet in the middle on this or a game will fall apart. Show the GM a little respect for the hard work he's done and the GM will show you a little respect by giving you a little leeway on changes to the story.