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Message: <blockquote data-quote="doctorbadwolf" data-source="post: 9257576" data-attributes="member: 6704184">Having played several other rogues, I really don't think I am. The rogue has plenty of room for a controlled burst of damage. The "if you hit you crit" thing is great, it just needs to be reliable, otherwise it's worse than a ribbon.Feel free to quote a statement from me saying that assassinate needs to be one-shot kill.half the classes in the game get more of a damage boost than that at level 3. And this is one attack in, at best, most encounters. You know, for someone accusing me of looking at things wrong, you sure seem to be missing what I am actually saying in the actual text of the OP. The OP literally asks, and I quote, "does the rogue have enough room to make an assassin at level 3?" Oh, and my answer is, again this is text in the OP, "Between this and 2014 I am more convinced than before that the answer is no."So...what on earth are you even replying to?So it took a second to realize you were comparing the 2014 version. Long day. Anyway, now compare them doing thief stuff, like direct stealth based infiltration. More to the point, that's if the assassin is allowed to surprise targets by their party, if they do it successfully, and if they hit. The Swashbuckler gets to basically not think about how to get SA and rarely has to use disengage. The assassin terrible, and the only improvement of the new version is that it at least gets something that is useful outside of a single round of combat.First things first, see the end of the OP. As I said, I'm not convinced the Rogue even can successfully model an assassin. I played an assassin one time, using the thief subclass, before I'd built a full assassin class. As to what level 3 could be, I think making deception checks, apply poisons, and get into or out of a disguise as a bonus action could work. Along with poisoner kit and disguise kit prof.Another idea would be a choice of tools, so the whole assassin isn't just one archetype of assassins. Being able to hide more easily in some way, and to stay hidden more reliably. I suggested social stealth mechanics for my assassin class in a thread once and everryone told me that was foolish because that's just a normal stealth check, which I think is a wild claim, so perhaps being able to hide while only lighty obscured by other creatures, similar to the first Assassin's Creed game. ANother thing that game does well is just smoothly moving, killing, moving, and hiding again, in what would be one turn in DnD. I've struggled to do this in my Assassin class, and what I landed on was the ability to move and hide as a reaction when you drop a creature to 0hp.</blockquote>

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