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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 9257584" data-attributes="member: 2067">I think we can talk about surprise murder and combat without talking about damage per se. Which is why the idea of an applied condition makes some sense to me. If the target was stunned or frightened or incapacitated or unconscious or poisoned (poisoner's kit again!) or grappled or got their speed reduced to 0, that might be enough of a lasting effect to feel like, maybe I didn't kill them, but I messed them up. Even if it only lasts until the end of next turn. D&amp;D combats are fast enough that if I catch a guard alone and she spends the next turn stunned, she's going down between me and my offscreen buddies. That feels right for an assassin.Cuz that's Batman, baybee!There's a bunch of big IFs and &quot;DM-May-I&quot;s in Assassin-land that make things kind of frustrating. Even just moving stealth and poison out of skill checks and into features could be a big help. Something like:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">At the end of any short rest, you can apply poison to one weapon of your choice. The next time you hit with that weapon, it deals 1d4 poison damage in addition to its normal effects, and the target must make a CON save (DC 8 + your prof bonus + your dex bonus) or be poisoned for 1 minute. (this feature has expansion potential - higher level assassins make &quot;poisons&quot; that cause an array of different statuses or deal bigger dice of damage. I know the DMG has some poisons you could use, but it's another DM-May-I element that we're bypassing with this feature.)</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">When you roll initiative, all creatures of your choice in the initiative roll are surprised by you, until the end of your first turn.</li>
</ul></blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 9257584, member: 2067"] I think we can talk about surprise murder and combat without talking about [I]damage[/I] per se. Which is why the idea of an applied condition makes some sense to me. If the target was stunned or frightened or incapacitated or unconscious or poisoned (poisoner's kit again!) or grappled or got their speed reduced to 0, that might be enough of a lasting effect to feel like, maybe I didn't kill them, but I [I]messed them up[/I]. Even if it only lasts until the end of next turn. D&D combats are fast enough that if I catch a guard alone and she spends the next turn stunned, she's going down between me and my offscreen buddies. That feels right for an assassin. Cuz that's [I]Batman[/I], baybee! There's a bunch of big IFs and "DM-May-I"s in Assassin-land that make things kind of frustrating. Even just moving stealth and poison out of skill checks and into features could be a big help. Something like: [LIST] [*]At the end of any short rest, you can apply poison to one weapon of your choice. The next time you hit with that weapon, it deals 1d4 poison damage in addition to its normal effects, and the target must make a CON save (DC 8 + your prof bonus + your dex bonus) or be poisoned for 1 minute. (this feature has expansion potential - higher level assassins make "poisons" that cause an array of different statuses or deal bigger dice of damage. I know the DMG has some poisons you could use, but it's another DM-May-I element that we're bypassing with this feature.) [*]When you roll initiative, all creatures of your choice in the initiative roll are surprised by you, until the end of your first turn. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]

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