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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9260085" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I did not, no.So, to start off, we have the thirteen present in D&D 5e already. In alphabetical order:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Artificer, the engineer-as-magician, with shades of other professional fields (blacksmith, surgeon, sapper, etc.)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Barbarian, the warrior-of-passion, whether it be warp-spasms or altered states of consciousness or spirit-indwelling.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bard, the artist-as-magician, whether that art be music, dance, oratory, fencing, whatever.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cleric, the devotee-as-magician, servant and shepherd both, remembering that a shepherd's crook was both a tool and a weapon.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Druid, (these days) merging shapeshifter-as-magician and geomancer-as-magician, calling on the magic of land and beast.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter, the warrior-of-skill, who transcends the limits of IRL mundane soldiers through grit and tenacity.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monk, the warrior-of-discipline, who transcends limits through enlightenment and practiced form, often semi-spiritual in nature.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Paladin, the warrior-of-devotion, manifesting power through purity, both in keeping promises and in inspiring others to imitate their example.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ranger, the warrior-of-the-hunt, who straddles the line between man and beast, city and wilderness, tools and nature.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rogue, the warrior-of-trickery, who knows the ways of not being struck or spotted, and of striking and seeing.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sorcerer, the inheritor-as-magician, who has magic power not because it was sought, but because it is part of who they are.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warlock, the bargainer-as-magician, who represents the power of Faustian bargains and clever swindlers cheating evil powers.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard, the scientist-as-magician, who represents pure knowledge (e.g. pure math) as the pathway to ultimate power.</li> </ul>Though some argue that some of these should be merged (e.g. Paladin/Cleric is a common one, as is Sorcerer/Wizard), I personally see them as distinct, representing common and relatable narrative structures. We can, at least, see that there are similarities in here. For example, Rogues and Warlocks have surprisingly similar archetype structure, just mirrored across the warrior vs magician line, even though their mechanical expression is essentially never similar. Cleric and Paladin are well-known similar tropes, but I see a critical difference in that Clerics advise and divine, where Paladins inspire and lead.The first few class-fantasy concepts that I think are absolute shoe-ins, which bring us up to the ~18 mark, are (in no particular order, just what came to mind):<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Assassin, per the thread, the warrior-of-shadow, whose skill with all the subtle ways to stalk (and un-alive) someone transcends mortal limits.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warlord, the warrior-of-tactics, who transcends limits by cooperating with others rather than purely through her own mettle.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Swordmage, the warrior-as-magician, for whom swordplay is magic, and magic is swordplay (or other weapons), one and inseparable.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Shaman, the spiritualist-as-magician, who straddles the line between material and spirit, the bridge connecting these realms.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Psion (etc.), the telepath-as-magician, who draws on ESP, the paranormal, occult "science" etc. to bend the rules of reality in their favor.</li> </ul>That brings us to 18--and, notably, all of these have been full classes at some point in both 3.x and 4e, to one extent or another, and many were at least partially represented before 3e as well (e.g. Assassin and Psion were their own classes, Fighters used to include Warlord elements, 2e Priest used to include stuff like how I describe Shaman above.) We also see some more interesting thematic parallels, e.g. the Warlord leverages others the way the Fighter leverages her own skills; the Assassin is borderline (or even actually) magical at hiding and poisoning and all the subtle arts of monitoring and killing people, while the Rogue is simply supremely deft; the Shaman manifests nature and spirituality to act as a conduit for each side, mundane and magical, while the Druid does so to embody and transform these forces. Some of these themes are somewhat subtle in expression, and hard to really do justice to unless they're given full-throated representation.The next few are a bit more tenuous, in part because they have less representation or are somewhat more specific archetypes, but I think they still stand on their own, particularly when we cast our net wider than just D&D and consider both very close connections (like Pathfinder) and somewhat more distant ones (like video games influenced by D&D, such as Final Fantasy or Warcraft). However, I freely admit that with some of these, it may be more that I want them to be well-represented class-fantasies than that they necessarily are or should be so.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Alchemist, the chemist-as-magician, who uses magical ingredients and concoctions to control the world...or themselves.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Avenger, the warrior-of-zeal, whose absolute focus is both shield and sword against their enemies.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warden, the warrior-of-the-land, who wears Nature's power like a cloak, and wreaks Her wrath where he walks.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Summoner, the overseer-as-magician, whose magic lies in getting other beings to use magic for her.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Invoker, the emissary-as-magician, who calls down disaster against the foes of the faith.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">"Machinist" (not my fav name), the warrior-of-technology, who uses guns, machines, and tools to overcome their foes.</li> </ul>Notably, with these 24 class fantasies, we have an essentially even balance of warriors and magicians: 12 magicians, 11 warriors, and one that is both at once. Some (non-Swordmage) warriors might be using a lot of proper spellcasting (e.g. Assassin might), and some magicians might do a lot of smacking heads (e.g. Cleric often does), but presenting a diverse space of such options is useful and desirable. Further...well, honestly, it's actually pretty hard to come up with anything further! These cover enough ground that, when combined with wiggle-room from multiclassing, feats, subclasses, and other forms of blending/hybridizing, most concepts should have something to represent them. Probably several things, e.g. "someone who uses both arcane magic and martial prowess" has like seven distinct paths in the above stuff (Swordmage specifically, but also extant or hypothetical subclasses of Bard, Fighter, Psion, Rogue, Warlock, and Warlord, and possibly others!) and a couple other near-hits like Avenger, Paladin, or Ranger (not arcane magic) or Warden (less "magic" and more "supernatural power of nature.")</blockquote>

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