Why is the Gish so popular with players?

[Neonchameleon]

But what is dabbled and what is focused matter.

Which is why we have separate subclasses. And there are many classification systems

What is happening here is that you are trying to smoosh two axes of Gish together; Synergistic Vs Dabblers and Primary Casters Vs Primary Hitters. Your three categories make about as much sense as declaring the important alignments to be LG, LE, and Chaotic.

When the Focus and the Dabble don't matter, the game likely hasn't defined them and has a very high chance of OPness, brokeness, and lack of flavor.

No one is saying "the focus and the dabble don't matter". But they are subcategories of "focused dabbler". If you have a synergystic build what that is matters. And it makes no sense to separate Bladesingers from Echo Knights and when you aren't separating Rune Knights from One D&D Archfey Bladelocks.

Gishes are popular because of the choice. If the choice is irrelevant then it's a good chance the person just wants to power game.

And "I want to be a full wizard and dabble with a sword" is the number one example of this.

There is much much more choice in the synergystic and new builds than there is in the basic dabblers. But I guess where there are actually huge vistas of choice in terms of playstyle and style in general is irrelevant to you?

 

[Neonchameleon]

I think it does matter as I believe the people who want aren't the same.

Although most of them want MAGIC/FIGHTING hasn't proved to work fairly in 90% of RPGs (with a split magic system).

And I believe that those who classify what they want as something as abstract and disconnected as "FIGHTING/magic" or "MAGIC/fighting" are both groups that are primarily interested in how their character gets their power rather than who their character is or what they do. And that people whose primary interest in their character is about their power are, by definition, power gamers. And sure they are different groups of power gamers. But this doesn't mean they can't usefully be grouped together.

 

[SkidAce]

My 2nd character (first one created solely by myself) was a ranger/mu.

Because I wanted to fight and cast magic like all the hero/protagonists in the books I was reading in the 70s.

 

[Undrave]

I think it does matter as I believe the people who want FIGHTING/magic and those who want MAGIC/fighting aren't the same.

Eh, that's just an aesthetic preferences.

 

[Minigiant]

Which is why we have separate subclasses. And there are many classification systems

What is happening here is that you are trying to smoosh two axes of Gish together; Synergistic Vs Dabblers and Primary Casters Vs Primary Hitters. Your three categories make about as much sense as declaring the important alignments to be LG, LE, and Chaotic

Well there are 2 axis

The Switch vs Combine and Fighting First vs Magic First.

Just that Magic First Combiners imo seems more like a JRPG character concept not really supported in popular TTRPGs.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Well there are 2 axis

The Switch vs Combine and Fighting First vs Magic First.

Just that Magic First Combiners imo seems more like a JRPG character concept not really supported in popular TTRPGs.

And this is because pre-4e D&D magic is tedious and basically one note. And doesn't do a whole lot to support a magical and fantastical world other than turning everyone into bullet (or sword thrust) sponges.

It's not just JRPGs that support characters whose magic is a reflection of who they are. As I often bring up I'd go for the X-Men or just about any modern non-D&D fantasy.

 

[Pedantic]

And this is because pre-4e D&D magic is tedious and basically one note. And doesn't do a whole lot to support a magical and fantastical world other than turning everyone into bullet (or sword thrust) sponges.

It's not just JRPGs that support characters whose magic is a reflection of who they are. As I often bring up I'd go for the X-Men or just about any modern non-D&D fantasy.

I don't think that's at all universal. Magic as a tool, either with discoverable unknown properties, or with well known standards is a really common fantasy trope as well. It's often not particularly expensive or internal at all, just a setting norm or piece of technology.

 

[TwoSix]

I don't think that's at all universal. Magic as a tool, either with discoverable unknown properties, or with well known standards is a really common fantasy trope as well. It's often not particularly expensive or internal at all, just a setting norm or piece of technology.

Game mechanics play a role in supporting different narratives of magic use, as well.

After all, D&D orginally started with the idea of generating stats first, and then picking your class based on the stats that were rolled. That obviously leads to narratives wherein the classes are "jobs" that normal people train for and start doing. That, almost by necessity, pushes a narrative where magic is something like a skilled craft.

More modern games, where creating the character concept and/or picking class is the first step, and assigning stats is done after concept and class choice, support narratives of inherent magic more like "magical mutant" or "draconic ancestor".

 

[Neonchameleon]

I don't think that's at all universal. Magic as a tool, either with discoverable unknown properties, or with well known standards is a really common fantasy trope as well. It's often not particularly expensive or internal at all, just a setting norm or piece of technology.

Magic is more than a tool; it's a set of tools for making tools. If it was just one tool it would do just one thing.

And even if we look at hammers a blacksmith's hammer is shaped and weighted differently and used very differently from a cabinet maker's is different again from a warhammer and a mallet is something else.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think it does matter as I believe the people who want FIGHTING/magic and those who want MAGIC/fighting aren't the same.

Although most of them want MAGIC/FIGHTING hasn't proved to work fairly in 90% of RPGs (with a split magic system).

Eh. Its worked acceptably in any system where you start getting in diminishing returns if you hammer on one end of things