Why is the material relam even important? ( reading about planes )

[dionysis]

I've been reading a bit about planes. There are infinite realms in the astral domain, elemental chaos and abyss.

Some of these realms contain cities such as Celestia ( just happens to be the page I'm open to ). Anyway, in this case why wouldn't mortal characters just start their adventure in this realm? What's the big deal about the material realm anyway? In the cosmology as I read it, it seems just like another plane - maybe bigger, maybe more population, but who says one of those infinite realms isn't even bigger than the material realm?

Something to chew on...

 

[Flipguarder]

big =/= important. if you look at the map that shows portal locations, it would seem that the material plane is sort of a crossroads of all these extreme places. Celestia and other planes are just not very easy to get to. But by all means if you want to start a campaign in a non-material plane its perfectly acceptable. I would even go as far as to say its encouraged when you start the players at paragon level or above.

 

[sfedi]

You should in fact ask why it is NOT important.

Because if it was, lots of Paragon and Epic creatures would be wrecking havoc on the material plane.

I always thought that the more valuable resources should be on other planes, so it justifies that high level creatures don't bother on this plane.

 

[Neuroglyph]

You should in fact ask why it is NOT important.

Because if it was, lots of Paragon and Epic creatures would be wrecking havoc on the material plane.

I always thought that the more valuable resources should be on other planes, so it justifies that high level creatures don't bother on this plane.

Actually, the material plane has the greatest resource of all - worship -entities on the prime empower beings on other planes by their devotion.

The reason you don't have mass havoc, in most world settings, is due to some cosmological agreement or binding made at the start of creation. Powerful entities can't just come crashing through to the mundane world without either invitation, or some breach in the natural barriers between worlds.

For instance, in FR, it took Ao getting totally bent out of shape to banish the gods to some mortal form on Toril.

There is no reason however that you can't start a campaign of characters in some astral realm or outer plane. The Planescape campaign setting was all about that and most of those rules can still be found for 3.5 edition here: Planewalker

 

[Prestidigitalis]

The answer I prefer addresses both sides of the question: there is an infinite (or vast beyond reckoning) number of material planes.

Why are the material planes important? Answers: 1. Collectively, they are far "larger" than the single-instance planes like Celestia; 2. (optional) That's where the worshippers are.

As the material planes are so important, why are they not overrun with non-native beings trying to influence events? Answer: Because there are so many of them that those beings are rare in comparison.

 

[Turtlejay]

The answer is, the Prime Material is important to your characters.

They may not be involved in the most bitter struggle in the universe, or the most important, but they are involved in *a* struggle, and that is the story you are telling. If, later in their careers you want to introduce them to other, more grand planes, and their more universe shaking perils, do so.

Since the game you are running is about the 5 guys and gals sitting in front of you at the moment, and not the rest of the (imaginary) universe, it truly doesn't matter which plane or which place is biggest or best.

Jay

 

[Prestidigitalis]

This seems like a good time to ask... Is it true that it's Turtlejays all the way down?

(Note: this was a joke on "Turtles all the way down" -- as this is a cosmology thread and I found Turtlejay's name amusing. Sorry if this confused anyone.)

 

[dionysis]

thanks for all the replies so far.

I know its DND and everything is based on the story, DM and subjective.

It seems like the answers so far are along the lines of confirming the material plane is pretty insignificant in the grant scheme of cosmology. As far as being a connector to other planes, sigil plays that role as well as probably a few more undefined planes...

So far the material realm is just a place with lots of heroic level mortals that worship other deities. Once you are paragon level or higher and your adventures take you to other realms/planes then you could almost forget about the material plane completely ( unless you actually had some reason to care... )

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'd say the 4e cosmology makes the material world pretty significant. Presumably gods require worshipers, though this is never really quite spelled out. The great spirits are also powerful entities which are entirely based only in the material world. Perhaps the primordials and demons don't care much about the material world, but then again they created it in the first place and the implication is there is and can only be ONE material world at a time.

As for why the world isn't overrun with epic level beings if these other realms are endless and the material world is finite one doesn't have to wonder too much. These immortal beings don't have to operate on mortal timescales. They aren't in any particular hurry to get anything done. The more long-lived ones are presumably extremely risk-averse. They only do their thing when they have spent eons preparing or some very rare event takes place that gives them a unique opening to advance their plans. There very well may be a practically limitless number of these entities lurking out there laying plans and skirmishing with each other. Once in a great while one acts decisively and there is a big hubbub.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Lots of stuff is buried away in forgotten (by mortals) places. Only rarely do mortals actually see signs of what goes on in the other realms. Of course whenever heroes rise to a certain level of power they are likely to run afoul of all sorts of things, but the average person and the average geographic area will be pretty quiet most of the time with maybe just minor servants of the powers doing small things.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, if all you have are battles between Gods, then yeah, the Astral Sea becomes pretty important... and Primordials and demons are always fighting each other in the Elemental Chaos....

...and yeah, you've got Shadar-Kai trying to survive in the Shadowfell, and the constant struggle against the Formorians in the Feywild....


....But -every- single one of these touches and is involved with the world. Not only that, the fight between gods is -not as important- as the constant struggle between the gods and the primordials, the literal battle between complete subjugation of the world, and complete destruction of the world.

That -makes- the world important, as it is the place where those involved in major conflicts can actually meet. It is the buffer between the Astral and the Elemental, between Death and Life itself.

Sigil only -touches- these places, but the fights are never allowed to spill over inside. The world does not have this benefit.