Doc_Souark
Explorer
s and Giggles for the DM ?No the Bodak is a tough monster and thats just it, if all critters had a weak spot to explote would you still play ?
Why is there a Bodak?
- Thread starter buzzard
- Start date
s and Giggles for the DM ?No the Bodak is a tough monster and thats just it, if all critters had a weak spot to explote would you still play ?
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
That's actually the way gaze attacks are supposed to work. If you begin the round within 30' of a creature with a gaze attack, you generally have to make a save. If it spends a standard action to look at you, you have to make another save.
Unfortunately, those rules deal very very very poorly with multiple gaze attack creatures since technically, you would have to make one save for each creature each round. Which means that against 8 bodaks, even a character who only fails the save on a one has a 34% chance of dying each round.
WRT all of the people who say "Death Ward", you're being somewhat silly. Death Ward is, IME, not exactly a common spell to prepare at 8th level (it probably becomes more common at level 11+ where the opportunity cost is lower and there are more death effects in play). And even so, it will only protect one party member from the death effects. Everyone else is just as screwed.
In my understanding, the best way to deal with bodaks is to retreat outside of the 30' gaze range and fire arrows at them until they're dead. (That tends to work well against most creatures with gaze attacks Unfortunately, it's also quite boring.)
Unfortunately, those rules deal very very very poorly with multiple gaze attack creatures since technically, you would have to make one save for each creature each round. Which means that against 8 bodaks, even a character who only fails the save on a one has a 34% chance of dying each round.
WRT all of the people who say "Death Ward", you're being somewhat silly. Death Ward is, IME, not exactly a common spell to prepare at 8th level (it probably becomes more common at level 11+ where the opportunity cost is lower and there are more death effects in play). And even so, it will only protect one party member from the death effects. Everyone else is just as screwed.
In my understanding, the best way to deal with bodaks is to retreat outside of the 30' gaze range and fire arrows at them until they're dead. (That tends to work well against most creatures with gaze attacks
Unfortunately, it's also quite boring.)Ray Silver said:Our DM managed to kill four of our 7-member party with bodaks. We were 14th level, and there were over 12 bodaks in the room. You basically only had to roll a one (and I was the fighter), so failing your Fort save was only a matter of time. I didn't even consider trying to fight blind, as he was barely treating it as a gaze attack. As long as the bodak wasn't around a corner, you had to make a save against it.
I hate bodaks now...
Swack-Iron
First Post
IMO (and I've DM'd these things) bodaks are just PC killers, with little other use as a monster. They are a low challenge rating, so lower-level parties can supposedly take these things on. But if you run the math, at least one character in a 4 to 6 person party is going to die before the fight is over. As someone else pointed out, at the lower levels its not likely that the party cleric has Death Ward prepared. And woe betide a party that comes across a bodak totally unprepared, or gets surprised by one.
I don't use bodaks as monsters in my campaign at all, now. I don't need to kill a PC in my party without them having much of a chance to defend themselves.
I don't use bodaks as monsters in my campaign at all, now. I don't need to kill a PC in my party without them having much of a chance to defend themselves.
The_Gneech
Explorer
They're also just deadly dull critters. At least mohrgs and allips are creepy...
-The Gneech
-The Gneech
RigaMortus
Explorer
buzzard said:
I would have the Fighter apply the rouge to the bodak so that it has nice rosey cheeks, and therefore negate it's gaze attack.
buzzard said:
Was this a 3.5 game you were playing? They toned down (not necessarily "eliminated") save or die effects in 3.5, not 3.0.
Ray Silver said:Our DM managed to kill four of our 7-member party with bodaks. We were 14th level, and there were over 12 bodaks in the room. You basically only had to roll a one (and I was the fighter), so failing your Fort save was only a matter of time. I didn't even consider trying to fight blind, as he was barely treating it as a gaze attack. As long as the bodak wasn't around a corner, you had to make a save against it.
I hate bodaks now...
Sounds like you should be mad at the DM for not running the encounter correctly, instead of the monster you were up against.
Swack-Iron said:
Wow, you mean there actually might be a monster out there where a party of adventurers should consider RUNNING from and not standing and fighting? What a novel idea...
Why does it exist? Even game designers have off days. The encounter is either a total cakewalk, or a practically guaranteed PC death; there's no real in-between area.
I have DMed bodak encounters, and I've concluded that there's really nothing fun about the combat. If you have death ward, your fighter waltzes in and hacks the thing to bits without half trying. The rest of the party can go out for an ale and come back a few rounds later. If you lack wards, but you do have silver arrows (or cold spells) and room to maneuver, it's still no challenge. You retreat from the monster with its 20' move, stay out of its gaze range, and poke holes in it until it stops moving.
If you're stuck in range without wards, then you're in a world of hurt. With four characters in gaze range, that's 5 saves in the first round, before the PCs realize they need to avert their eyes. Depending on saves, there's approximately an 80% chance of losing a character in the first round. (Put in multiple bodaks, or more than 4 PCs in the party, and the chance quickly approaches 100%.)
What really annoys me is that the effect cannot be fixed with the resources of an 8th-level party. Since it's a death effect, victims can't be brought back with raise dead. Unless the circumstances are weighted in the PC's favor, any CR-appropriate bodak encounter practically guarantees a trip back to town to have an NPC cast resurrection. (And you'd better hope you get it cast before a full day passes, else you've got another bodak to deal with.)
I have DMed bodak encounters, and I've concluded that there's really nothing fun about the combat. If you have death ward, your fighter waltzes in and hacks the thing to bits without half trying. The rest of the party can go out for an ale and come back a few rounds later. If you lack wards, but you do have silver arrows (or cold spells) and room to maneuver, it's still no challenge. You retreat from the monster with its 20' move, stay out of its gaze range, and poke holes in it until it stops moving.
If you're stuck in range without wards, then you're in a world of hurt. With four characters in gaze range, that's 5 saves in the first round, before the PCs realize they need to avert their eyes. Depending on saves, there's approximately an 80% chance of losing a character in the first round. (Put in multiple bodaks, or more than 4 PCs in the party, and the chance quickly approaches 100%.)
What really annoys me is that the effect cannot be fixed with the resources of an 8th-level party. Since it's a death effect, victims can't be brought back with raise dead. Unless the circumstances are weighted in the PC's favor, any CR-appropriate bodak encounter practically guarantees a trip back to town to have an NPC cast resurrection. (And you'd better hope you get it cast before a full day passes, else you've got another bodak to deal with.)
Bodaks are great monsters for flavor purposes. I mean this is a creature that has been "destroyed by the touch of absolute evil".
What the hell does that mean? Would a demon be absolute evil?
an sphere of annihlation? an evil insane god? Orcus?
At the very least Bodaks should be rare, (the initial bodak), and have a cool backstory.
Make the initial Bodak someone the PC know. This adds horror to this already potent monster and gives the 5% chance of flashback more meaning. Build some tension before the PCs meet the Bodak, something like it slaughters a farm house, with the sole survior being a blind man.
This should give the PC something to think about.
I wouldnt throw a Bodak willy nilly into a dungeon, in round the corner and voila Bodak. That is treating the Bodak like it was Death from the old Gauntlet arcade game.
A Bodak is certainly a tough customer and can easily kill reckless and unprepared party members, and will always have a chance to kill the well prepared if they stray within range of its gaze.
Some people will hate that aspect, others,(like myself) think the monster has flavor and helps emphasize that adventures are few and far between percisley because of monsters like this.
Things remember:
Cold spells work on Bodaks(fire acid resistance 20, electricity immunity).
Darkness (the spell), renders Bodaks fairly useless, the gaze power doesnt function and a Bodaks melee ability is fairly weak.
Bodaks have no turn resistance and turning has a 60' range,(compared to a Bodaks 30' gaze).
Image spells of sunlight can help corral a Bodak as they are fearful of sunlight.
The simple act of adverting your gaze gives you a 50/50 chance of not needing to make a saving throw.
the Resistance cantrip is nice against the Bodak.
Bodaks have int scores of 6, pretty mindless evil, you can outthink the Bodak.
What the hell does that mean? Would a demon be absolute evil?
an sphere of annihlation? an evil insane god? Orcus?
At the very least Bodaks should be rare, (the initial bodak), and have a cool backstory.
Make the initial Bodak someone the PC know. This adds horror to this already potent monster and gives the 5% chance of flashback more meaning. Build some tension before the PCs meet the Bodak, something like it slaughters a farm house, with the sole survior being a blind man.
This should give the PC something to think about.
I wouldnt throw a Bodak willy nilly into a dungeon, in round the corner and voila Bodak. That is treating the Bodak like it was Death from the old Gauntlet arcade game.
A Bodak is certainly a tough customer and can easily kill reckless and unprepared party members, and will always have a chance to kill the well prepared if they stray within range of its gaze.
Some people will hate that aspect, others,(like myself) think the monster has flavor and helps emphasize that adventures are few and far between percisley because of monsters like this.
Things remember:
Cold spells work on Bodaks(fire acid resistance 20, electricity immunity).
Darkness (the spell), renders Bodaks fairly useless, the gaze power doesnt function and a Bodaks melee ability is fairly weak.
Bodaks have no turn resistance and turning has a 60' range,(compared to a Bodaks 30' gaze).
Image spells of sunlight can help corral a Bodak as they are fearful of sunlight.
The simple act of adverting your gaze gives you a 50/50 chance of not needing to make a saving throw.
the Resistance cantrip is nice against the Bodak.
Bodaks have int scores of 6, pretty mindless evil, you can outthink the Bodak.
RangerWickett
Legend
I really don't see why we need save-or-die effects. Just convert them all so they do lots of damage. For low-level things, it would have the same effect, but for higher-level characters, it reduces the complete randomness of the spell.
For instance, if you only are affected by a Finger of Death on a natural 1, then 95% of the time the spell is almost pointless, and the villain would be better off just fireballing you. So instead, make Finger of Death deal 10d8 damage, with a Fortitude save for half. Similarly, Power Word Kill would just deal 90 points of damage with no save.
For instance, if you only are affected by a Finger of Death on a natural 1, then 95% of the time the spell is almost pointless, and the villain would be better off just fireballing you. So instead, make Finger of Death deal 10d8 damage, with a Fortitude save for half. Similarly, Power Word Kill would just deal 90 points of damage with no save.
