Why is there a Bodak?

RigaMortis
quote:
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Originally posted by Swack-Iron

I don't use bodaks as monsters in my campaign at all, now. I don't need to kill a PC in my party without them having much of a chance to defend themselves.
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Wow, you mean there actually might be a monster out there where a party of adventurers should consider RUNNING from and not standing and fighting? What a novel idea...

I think that means the CR is wrong...

A CR 8 creature is supposed to be a pushover to an 8th-level party. Even if you count killing one party member as 20% of your resources, a 7th-level spell that the party doesn't even have should count, to.
 
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Tsunami said:
However, unlike the bodak, the devourer can only kill one person at a time, and even then, the trapped soul is rescue-able for a number of rounds.

Yeah, the soul is...but the victim is still dead.

But wait, don't answer yet! Look what else you get!

From the SRD:
Spell-Like Abilities: At the start of any encounter, the trapped essence within a devourer is assumed to have 3d4+3 levels (enough fuel for 30 to 75 uses). Once per round, the devourer can use one of following as the spell cast by an 18th-level sorcerer (save DC 13 + spell level): confusion, control undead, ghoul touch, lesser planar ally, ray of enfeeblement, spectral hand, suggestion, and true seeing.

Undead: Immune to mind-influencing effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and disease. Not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, energy drain, or death from massive damage.

Spell Deflection (Su): The trapped essence provides a measure of magical protection. If any of the following spells are cast at the devourer and overcome its spell resistance, they affect the imprisoned essence instead: banishment, chaos hammer, confusion, detect thoughts, dispel evil, dominate person, emotion, fear, geas/quest, holy word, hypnosis, imprisonment, magic jar, maze, suggestion, trap the soul, or any form of charm or compulsion. In many cases, this effectively neutralizes the spell (charming a trapped essence, for example, is useless). Some of them (banishment, for example), might eliminate the trapped essence, robbing the devourer of its magical powers until it can consume another.
 
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Bodak CR and death gaze

Realistically, by the very nature of the beast, it is difficult to pin down the CR of a Bodak.

If you spring a Bodak (or multiple bodaks for a high level party) on a group of characters, without even a hint that they should have Death Ward up, then expect casualties. Lots of casualties.

OTOH, the Bodak is a one trick pony, at least in 3.0. Low armor class, and almost no melee damage worth mentioning means that if the party goes in prepared they will get ripped to shreds in a hurry.

In 3.5, Death Ward and Negative Plane Protection were merged, so I suspect we'll see it show up on the memorized spell list of more Clerics. When I was in Swack-Iron's campaign, I always considered it a secondary spell (that is, something to memorize if we had a hint that the group needed it, but more commonly replaced with a more generally useful spell. Had I been a scroll-monkey, I'd probably have made scrolls of it.)

So I guess one way to look at it is that creatures like Bodaks justify having a Bard in the party to gather intel on the group's next adventure ahead of time. :D

RigaMortis, you say the group should run away, but likely, by the time they can realize that they need to run away, someone is probably already dead. So the group gets dinged the cost of a Raise Dead, someone in the group gets screwed over, and the party eventually comes back with the right spells and crushes it, assuming they successfully get away AND can buy a Raise Dead in town before a day goes by and their friend is turned into a bodak. Not something I would probably do in my campaign, either.

I have no idea how they may have changed bodak in 3.5, but a few easy options spring to mind:

1) Have the gaze attack do straight damage rather than slaying outright. This effect was used in the Monsters of Faerun for an alternative Lich special ability, and I used it on a Lich in my campaign to good effect.

2) Have the gaze attack damage the target's CON. In large numbers, Bodaks are still quite capable of scaring a higher level party.

3) One of the demonic critters in Book of Vile Darkness had a level draining gaze attack. That one went over really well in my group. :cool:

The key to any of these last 3 is, indeed, that the save or die nature of the effect goes away, and gets replaced with something that weakens the character with the potential to still kill them if they just sit and take it.

Of course, if you do drop the death gaze, the CR of this creature should drop at least 3 levels since the average level 4 party will likely will have better attack rolls, damage rolls AND armor classes.

All this is 3.0 of course...I expect it to change significantly in 3.5.
 

Fauxargent said:
I think this contrasts nicely with the "Raise Dead is too cheap/easy to get hold of" rants.

The loss of thousands of xp really hurts (at least in our campaigns) although not as much as the point of CON did in earlier editions

For me, at least, it isn't the cost of resurrection that's the problem with putting instadeath monsters/spells/abilities in the game. Personally, I hate the idea of Quik-E-Mart resurrections that seem to be all too common in 3E. If PCs are dropping dead and popping back up once every few levels, that has a huge impact on campaign verisimilitude for me.
 



buzzard said:


Living Greyhawk doesn't work that way. I was 400 short before the start, and because I died during, the loss is based on my initial level. Thus I am hosed very hard.

buzzard

Because of that case, we play it like this:
If you lose a level because of raise dead you end with your xp at the same percentage in respect to next level as you had when you died.
Means if you needed just 3% to reach level 9 you now need 3% to reach level 8. Still a loss, but it's exactly a loss of one level not one and a half or just a half. Ok, it requires a little bit calculation but it doesn't occur every session ...

BYE
 

First off, I dont use save or die encounters very often. Very seldom, in fact.

I feel it's the DM's responsibility to run a Bodak or other SoD encounter properly. If used as a 'you go 'round the corner, and... roll a 20' type of encounter, then, IMO, you're in most cases hosing your group.

If you're going to use a Bodak, or other SoD critter, you should do it wisely.
For instance, perhaps, the party will find a dead Bard, who was keeping a journal, or diary. In this journal, he details the group HE was with encountering a horrific monster, "who's very gaze seemed to draw the very life from it's victims". Of course, this dead Bard was a victim as well, and perhaps, about an hour away from his own state of undeath.

Now, the PC's can figure that something fairly serious lies ahead, and can make possible arrangements to bolster their defenses. And the DM didn't totally give away his encounter.

Any SoD encounter is very doable, as long as the DM doesn't railroad the group into said encounter.

Just my .02.
 

Adlon said:

Any SoD encounter is very doable, as long as the DM doesn't railroad the group into said encounter.

Just my .02.

This encounter would have been under your railroad classification. We were on a ship, and went down into the hold. There was what appeared to be a dead body on a table. It stood up, and viola, everyone make saves!
The room, of course, was small enough that noone was outside the range.

buzzard
 


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