Why isn't every 9th level wizard rich?

i have done this trick but i found a market then made the stuff
offer to give the king a discount on all the brand new armor and weapons
your nake for his entire army

or make many diffrent things that people need start sell alchemy items cheap enough that commoner might buy them horse shoes, pots, houses

just don't do it all the time and try not to flaunt your weath don't buy a bunch of stuff that increases your power or breaks the game

bt i have found this is a quick way to get you and the party back to normal weath level if you have a stingy DM

P.S. to all you stingy DM's out there that are whining but thats part of the champain well it shouldn't be it doesn't make the game anymore fun being broke otherwise your players wouldn't need to think up :):):):) like this.
 

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Another tangent, since the D&D economy posts above seem to have pretty well explained that subject: Consider that wizards are generally supposed to be the scholarly, "nerdy" type. Next consider that academics IRL aren't really known for wanting a lot of money, being more content to play around with new spells, I mean ideas. You get the picture. :D I mean, making things just seems so pedestrian when you could be summoning an extraplanar being or working out a new formula.
 

WayneLigon said:
Certainly a good chunk of the non-adventuring wizard's income does come from such things. You could even make it into an adventuring possibility: Ebnoth the Crafter hires your group to raid a rival wizard's tower and rip that page out of his spell book so he can't cast it anymore and can't transcribe it. The Fabricate spell becomes a fairly rare spell thanks to practices like this.
The problem with this theory is that Wall of Iron and Fabricate are both core, trivially-available spells. Anyone can purchase a scroll of them in a sufficiently-sized community, or any caster who levels up can take them.

Of course this lasts until a group of armor makers and leather workers find our trade-minded wizard in the street as he's coming home from the inn and use blacksmiths hammers to crush the bones in his hands for him as a warning not to mess with the Guild. That kind of stuff tends to curb enterprising wizards who want to move out of the potion-making field.
*whackwhackwhack*
Wizard: Congratulations! You have finally just about worn away my False Life buffer. Now, if you would like to die natural deaths, leave me alone and don't make me use my Sudden Sile-
Craftsmen: Gag him! Wizards can't cast when they're-
Wizard: *Sudden-silent Dimension Doors away. Babau slay the craftsmen in the night*

Another adventure idea. Ebnoth the Crafter has somehow managed to evade such retribution and his Make Iron Cheap business has shuttered the mines and ruined the lives of countless people by turning the local economy on it's ear. Then he dies choking on a chicken bone at dinner. The local lord comes to you, his apprentice, and wonders what you're going to do about it since now the only local source of iron is now gone. Iron prices shoot through the roof and now all the people who depended on cheap iron want your head.
"OK, I need you all to send an expedition down to Graywaters. They'll sell scrolls of Wall of Iron there. I'll need 100 bits of iron, and 100 pounds of gold dust. Also, an obscene amount of other wealth. We're talking real estate weatlh here, although the knowledge that you will soon be able to build your own castle out of solid iron should make up for it. And I'm going to need XP. I'm going to need lots of XP. ...Hah. Round up a few peasants and find me a desecrated chapel. I've got a passable knowledge(religion) modifier."

Things like this are why wizards generally stay out of 'normal' businesses and why other wizards will visit a wizard who does these sorts of things to have a chat with him. He ignores the chat, his tower explodes the next day and the local wizard's council pockets a heft sum from the Armorcrafter's Guild and the local nobility.

....

"What's this, pa?"
"This crater, son, used to be the biggest city in all the lands."
"What happened, pa?"
"Well, you know those stories about being careful what you wish for? It turns out that if what you want is total and wholesale destruction, you don't need to be precise. There was a wizard called Ebnoth once, who ended up in a war against the other wizards of the land, and the nobles. When it became clear he couldn't win fairly, he bound a task force of glabrezu and wished for each of them to cause massive harm and ruin to befall the wizards and the nobles, as much as they could cause. And that's why we're all slaves of the goblins now."
"That sounds rather vindictive, pa."
"Well, son, the thing is, wizards everywhere like to get their way, and are willing to kill a lot of people to do so. This means bad things whenever wizards get into a fight about getting their way."
"Gosh."


Mind you, this is all assuming that Ebnoth the 2nd doesn't simply rob and murder the various guilds into economic and actual oblivion before starting his own crafting schemes. It's hard to pay the Wizard's guild to remove a wizard when he's just looted your treasury and payed them to remove you, after all.
 
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robertliguori said:
*whackwhackwhack*
Wizard: Congratulations! You have finally just about worn away my False Life buffer. Now, if you would like to die natural deaths, leave me alone and don't make me use my Sudden Sile-
Craftsmen: Gag him! Wizards can't cast when they're-
Wizard: *Sudden-silent Dimension Doors away. Babau slay the craftsmen in the night*

Remember - in order to become leaders of a guild, one of the prerequisites is to not be stupid (except, of course, for the Fool's Guild). They would not send simple thugs after a wizard. They'd hire someone competent for the job.
 

Umbran said:
They'd hire someone competent for the job.

Like adventurers!

Seriously though, as others have noted - pretty much every 9th level wizard IS rich, although he may not have much financial liquidity. Another thing to note is that a 9th level wizard who spends all his time making armor via fabricate spells is unlikely to make level 10. The desire for arcane knowledge should in most cases be driving a wizard to esoteric pursuits that are not as likely to be financially rewarding.
 

robertliguori said:
Wizard: Congratulations! You have finally just about worn away my False Life buffer. Now, if you would like to die natural deaths, leave me alone and don't make me use my Sudden Sile-

False Life only gives 1d10+caster level hit points. For a ninth level wizard facing four or five strong thugs, that's going away in the first couple of hits, if not the first hit. And he still has to deal with the negative modifiers to casting anything with all the pain involved. That's going to be around about a DC 18-23 Concentration check he has to make; that brings it to a 50/50 chance he'll get a spell off at all (that in addition to the Concentration check he has to make to cast defensively so they don't all get a free attack on him, so it's technically lower than that; more like a 20% any spell will go off). Sudden Still or Sudden Silent; either a grapple or gagging him one is going to prevent the other. I won't buy that he's spent more than one feat slot on such a exotic feat.

If a group of wizards does some of the other stuff you mention, that's when adventurers get called in to slaughter them to the man. They might be powerful, but they soon find out that secular authority is more powerful than they ever thought about being.

Spell casters in D&D simply are not these powerful do-anything-I-want-anytime-I-want demigods.
 

re: Thread title:

They aren't in my campaign, because Fabricate (as written) is teh BROKEN!!1 and therefore banned. But, honestly, I've never had a player who wanted to select that particular spell. There's just so many better things to do ...
 

WayneLigon said:
False Life only gives 1d10+caster level hit points. For a ninth level wizard facing four or five strong thugs, that's going away in the first couple of hits, if not the first hit. And he still has to deal with the negative modifiers to casting anything with all the pain involved. That's going to be around about a DC 18-23 Concentration check he has to make; that brings it to a 50/50 chance he'll get a spell off at all (that in addition to the Concentration check he has to make to cast defensively so they don't all get a free attack on him, so it's technically lower than that; more like a 20% any spell will go off). Sudden Still or Sudden Silent; either a grapple or gagging him one is going to prevent the other. I won't buy that he's spent more than one feat slot on such a exotic feat.
Point the first; each hit during the action provokes its own Concentration save; the thugs will need to be doing 8-13 damage to provoke such high checks. This is a bit questionable; what kind of thugs were you envisioning? A squad of Rog1/Ftr1s that rush, grapple, and commence with the beating will do this nicely; however it's hard to hire people with PC class levels.

Next, since we're assuming a wall-of-iron capable wizard, we're assuming a wizard with 14 ranks in Concentration, and a Con of 14-16 (given the lack of need for stat increases to stats beyond Int, Dex, and Con), which means that we're looking at a modifier of +17 before feats
and skill-boosting items.

There are also a few trivial get-out-of-grapple-free items in the MIC; let's ignore those for the time being. In any case, a prepared wizard can escape a grapple, and given that this wizard doesn't need to craft items and can afford metamagic rods, he has little to spend his bonus feats on but defensive measures.

All-in-all, a group of well-trained thugs bum-rushing a wizard has a good chance of immobilizing and detaining him, especially if the thugs use things like tanglefoot bags and readied actions. However, all it takes is one high-initative roll for the wizard (possibly aided by Nerveskitter) and the wizard is now elsewhere, and each thug is now individually hunted down, had their memories and employer information forcibly extracted from their living brain, and their employers found naked and segmented in the city center, with their body parts spelling out "Don't **** with wizards."

If a group of wizards does some of the other stuff you mention, that's when adventurers get called in to slaughter them to the man. They might be powerful, but they soon find out that secular authority is more powerful than they ever thought about being.
Well...no. Civic authority has power because large numbers of people support it, and because they have the power to smack down those people who don't (with said large masses of people). Casters (especially wizards) past a certain level do not necessarily support civic authority, and no number of commoners or warriors can smack them down. The power of civic authority is directly tied to the number of powerful adventurers who listen to it; given that the arcane craftsmen can be richer and more moral than the civic authority trying to crush them, why would you assume adventurers would flock to the government, rather than the wizard?

I mean, a wizard's guild who takes payment to kill a wizard for simply engaging in legitimate business practice are up there with the Assassin prestige class in lack-of-morality. Mercenary adventurers (or adventurers who want to prevent the horrors of a wizard's war and are targeting the weaker party) will start aiming at our rogue wizard, yes. However, if these adventurers are civic-minded, they'll take a side mission out to splatter the Guilds (both wizardly and trade). If they're purely mercenary, then they can splatter the guilds, loot them, and then take up iron-conjuring on their very own.

Spell casters in D&D simply are not these powerful do-anything-I-want-anytime-I-want demigods.
I would love to see some evidence of this. Past about level 10, full-casters are able to bring massive regional devastation to entire areas, then vanish faster than any non-caster can follow. A caster who can scry, buff, and teleport can keep up; however, it's hard to catch a caster who doesn't want to be caught. It's easy to catch a city. End result is that while the high-level party will eventually cast the mid-level wizard, the wizard will have brought a whole lot of pain to a whole lot of people in the mean time.

Given this, one would expect that given a dispute between merchants and wizards, the wizards guild would simply eliminate the offending nonmagical guilds and put a few of their own on permanent conjuration and fabrication duty.
 

I think the simplest answer is that wizards, who spend their days uncovering the secrets of the universe, will get bored of making iron after a while, and will produce only enough to fund their researches and pet causes. Plus, making really nice items would require investing in Craft, and not all wizards fancy that endeavor. When you consider how rare wizards are, and how valuable their time, you can see how it might ultimately be cheaper and easier to hire craftsmen, simply because wizards can't be arsed.
 

czak808 said:
This will probably make all the DM's scream, but...

Intelligence being the primary ability, a wizard probably has at least a +2 modifier.
So, just putting 4 - 6 skill points in Craft; Armorsmithing and the Fabricate spell would provide you with 250 (Banded mail) to 1500 (Full Plate) each day for one-third the cost. And how many 9th level Wizards don't have 90 gp for materials?
They are rich, and merchants export most of it off dimension. And you forgot moment of prescience. However other fab wizards/sorcerers may object to the newcomers. Check with your guild for regulations, usually they limit you to only double character wealth...

Most wizards (in my experience) need money and are greedy...
 

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