Why no Quickened spontanious spells?

[LightPhoenix]

Sorcerers and Bards: Sorcerers and bards choose spells as they cast them. They can choose when they cast their spells whether to apply their metamagic feats to improve them. As with other spellcasters, the improved spell uses up a higher-level spell slot. But because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot. Therefore, such a character must also take more time to cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat) than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell’s normal casting time is 1 action, casting a metamagic version is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. (This isn’t the same as a 1-round casting time.) For a spell with a longer casting time, it takes an extra full-round action to cast the spell.

Doesn't seem like there's any room for confusion here. If the spell you're casting spontaneously uses metamagic, it's casting time is extended. Even the question of order of operations seems a bit odd. By the reading of this passage (from the Feats section) it's fairly obvious you apply the feats first, and then this rule.

 

[Humanophile]

I am not hong (obviously) but I don't understand your question.

...

Also, I though quicken would not work with any spell that takes longer than a FRA. Since Summon Monster does (right? casting time of 1 round) then you can not quicken it, because the quicken feat says so.

Okay. I misread/misremembered. I take my stance back.

The way I remembered it, Quicken could apply to any spell with up to a 1-round casting time. That in mind, you could do little tricks with Quicken; none worth four levels, but amusing theoretical questions nonetheless.

I'll still continue to use my "favorable reading" on order-of-operation in my games, but since a 1-round casting time is greater than a FRA, you can't cast a spell like Summon Monster hoping to "snip a bit off the end". As such, say the "metamagic time cost" comes after the feat takes effect, and it all works just like in the book. Color me chastised.

 

[glass]

Also, I though quicken would not work with any spell that takes longer than a FRA. Since Summon Monster does (right? casting time of 1 round) then you can not quicken it, because the quicken feat says so.

Wow, you're right. It does say full round action, which is strange. Why didn't they just say standard action?

That kinda torpedoes my whole argument, doesn't it? Funny how noone else mentioned it.



glass.

 

[Majere]

How is this thread stil going ?
(Worryingly I think I agree with hong... Im scared)

" A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened."
Spells whose casting time is more than afull round action cant be quickened.. by anyone.
Interestingly it says spells whos casting time is greater than, not greater than or equal to. By the RAW a wizard can quicken summon mosnter but not, say permanency. It also does not forbid quickening a spell with metamagic already applied to it, unless the spell already took more than a full action to cast.
The casting time is in the "casting time" entry under the spell description, BEFORE any metamagic feats are applied.

"Special: This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously ... since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action."
In addition to the above Spontaineous casters never gain benefits from quicking their spontaineous spells because it take a full-round action to apply the metamagic.
Thus a quickened spontaineous spell still normally takes on full round action to cast. The exceptions to this are spells with longer casting time, these spells take an extra full-round action to cast the metamagic spell


Majere

 

[Silveras]

To add to the insanity, there is a new metamagic feat in Complete Divine, "Rapid Spell", that shortens the casting time for spells that start requiring more than a standard action to cast. It specifically notes when it can be applied to spontaneously-cast spells.

This feat shortens 1 round to 1 standard action, X rounds to 1 full round, X minutes to 1 minute, and X hours to 1 hour.

It can be combined with Quicken only if the original casting time was 1 full round.

 

[apsuman]

How is this thread stil going ?

" A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened."
Spells whose casting time is more than afull round action cant be quickened.. by anyone.
Interestingly it says spells whos casting time is greater than, not greater than or equal to. By the RAW a wizard can quicken summon mosnter but not, say permanency. ...

Majere

Except that :

Summon Monster I
Conjuration (Summoning) [see text]
Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One summoned creature
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

So, by the RAW, nobody can quicken a summon monster spell.

 

[Thanee]

Or in other words... 1 full-round action =| 1 round.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bauglir]

Just to expand on what Thanee said.

Discounting free actions for the moment, on your initiative you can take a move action, and a standard action, or if you wish you can replace both of these with a single full-round action. A full-round action, despite the name happens entirely on your initiative.

Spells with a casting time of "1 full round" will take from the start of your initiative, to the start of your next initiative to cast.

In other words, casting a summon monster spell takes longer than 1 full-round action, therefore it is impossible to quicken summon monster.

That make sense?

 

[Thaniel]

This is all why we use the UA spontaneous-metamagic variant in our local campaign.
You have the quicken spell feat, therefore you can use it for free 3 times per day. Wizard, sorcerer, cleric, druid, ranger, makes no difference. All metamagic is done spontaneously.

 

[Khristos]

A 1 rd casting time merely denotes that it takes a full action to do much like making a full attack. Rapid spell is a metamagic feat so still does the sorceror little good at sneaking a metamagic spell down to a standard action.