Why no Quickened spontanious spells?

[Shard O'Glase]

Who is demanding a Sorcerous Quicken??! Are Sorcerers not already powerful enough?

I know this topic came up before and another couple sessions have gone by in my game since then. I am even more sure that letting Sorcerers Quicken is just batty and is correctly prohibited by the rules.

Data Point:

Number of Spells Metamagic'd in the last session by the Sorcerer12: 5 including two Silent Feebleminds and an Empowered, Maximized Ray of Enfeeblement.
Number of Spells Metamagic'd in the last session by the Wizard12: Zero.

no there not powerful enough. Sorcerer's are a bunch of sissies compared to wizards. They need bonus feats and the ability to quicken.

As to the original question in the thrread for why can't sorcerer's quicken.

Short answer is that the designers were moronic.
Long answer is they were a bunch of slack jawed inbred locals style moronic.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The way I remembered it, Quicken could apply to any spell with up to a 1-round casting time.

You remember correctly. That's exactly how Quicken worked...

... in 3E.

In 3.5, they changed it from "full round" to "full round action".

-Hyp.

 

[Diirk]

A 1 rd casting time merely denotes that it takes a full action to do much like making a full attack. Rapid spell is a metamagic feat so still does the sorceror little good at sneaking a metamagic spell down to a standard action.

Incorrect. A 1 round casting time means that you start casting it on your turn, and finish casting as your turn in the next round comes up. Hence the name.. it takes an entire round to cast the spell. This obviously makes it much easier to interrupt than normal spells, because you're still casting during other people's turns so they can just run up and hit you.

And Rapid Spell sounds like it could help sorcerors, it would shorten a 1 round casting time -> standard action, then up to a full round action (your full attack idea) for being a metamagic alteration.

 

[Silveras]

Incorrect. A 1 round casting time means that you start casting it on your turn, and finish casting as your turn in the next round comes up. Hence the name.. it takes an entire round to cast the spell. This obviously makes it much easier to interrupt than normal spells, because you're still casting during other people's turns so they can just run up and hit you.

And Rapid Spell sounds like it could help sorcerors, it would shorten a 1 round casting time -> standard action, then up to a full round action (your full attack idea) for being a metamagic alteration.

Always best to go to the source ... emphasis added:

CASTING TIME
Most spells have a casting time of 1 standard action. Others take 1 round or more, while a few require only a free action.

A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.

A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before your turn 1 minute later (and for each of those 10 rounds, you are casting a spell as a full-round action, just as noted above for 1- round casting times). These actions must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the spell automatically fails.

When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the concentration from the current round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If you lose concentration before the casting is complete, you lose the spell.

A spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t count against your normal limit of one spell per round. However, you may cast such a spell only once per round. Casting a spell with a casting time of 1 free action doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity.

You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.

[Edit Is it just me, or does that make it even more ambiguous ?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Always best to go to the source ... emphasis added:

[Edit Is it just me, or does that make it even more ambiguous ?

Okay.

A spell with a one round casting time requires that you take a full round action, and also continue casting until just before your next turn.

A spontaneously metamagicked spell requires that you take a full round action. Full stop.

From the 3.5 Main FAQ, p16:
Any full-round action takes place entirely during the acting
character’s turn. That is, the action begins and ends during the
acting character’s turn in the initiative order. Though taking a
full-round action leaves you no time to move (except, possibly,
a 5-foot step) it does not continue into the next round in the
same way a spell with a casting time of 1 round does. A full-round
action is quicker than a 1-round casting time.

So a sorcerer's Empowered Magic Missile goes off this round, and he can take a 5' step plus free actions, and he threatens an area through the rest of the round. The spell can only be interrupted by a readied action, AoO, or continuous damage, since he's finished casting by the time anyone else acts.

A Summon Monster I, however, with a casting time of 1 round, requires that the caster take a full round action (so he can take a 5' step or free actions, but only before he begins casting), and then continue that casting until his next turn. During the rest of the round, he does not threaten an area, and any attack that deals damage (even though it's not an AoO or readied action) has a chance to disrupt the casting.

-Hyp.

 

[Silveras]

Okay.

A spell with a one round casting time requires that you take a full round action, and also continue casting until just before your next turn.

A spontaneously metamagicked spell requires that you take a full round action. Full stop.

From the 3.5 Main FAQ, p16:
Any full-round action takes place entirely during the acting
character’s turn. That is, the action begins and ends during the
acting character’s turn in the initiative order. Though taking a
full-round action leaves you no time to move (except, possibly,
a 5-foot step) it does not continue into the next round in the
same way a spell with a casting time of 1 round does. A full-round
action is quicker than a 1-round casting time.

So a sorcerer's Empowered Magic Missile goes off this round, and he can take a 5' step plus free actions, and he threatens an area through the rest of the round. The spell can only be interrupted by a readied action, AoO, or continuous damage, since he's finished casting by the time anyone else acts.

A Summon Monster I, however, with a casting time of 1 round, requires that the caster take a full round action (so he can take a 5' step or free actions, but only before he begins casting), and then continue that casting until his next turn. During the rest of the round, he does not threaten an area, and any attack that deals damage (even though it's not an AoO or readied action) has a chance to disrupt the casting.

-Hyp.

Except that, according to the SRD, "A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action." Not "a full-round action to begin, and then continues".

Let me be clear; I understand what you are saying, and agree that is how it is intended to be run. I am just saying that the SRD (and the Player's Handbook, for that matter, which has the same text) directly contradicts it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except that, according to the SRD, "A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action." Not "a full-round action to begin, and then continues".

You can only take actions during your turn. The only 'action' involved in casting a one-round spell is a full round action.

A spell with a casting time of one minute is ten full round actions. But you are still casting all the time in between each of those ten actions.

The action required to cast a one round spell is a full round action. The casting time, however, is longer than that.

The action required to cast a spontaneously metamagicked spell is a full round action. The casting time is also a full round action.

It's the same as the phrasing in the combat section: "Making an attack is a standard action." This isn't, strictly, the case. The Attack action, which allows you to make a single attack, is a standard action. Making an attack (in this case) requires a standard action, but the attack itself is not a standard action.

Casting a one round spell requires a full round action; the Cast a Spell action used to cast the spell is a full round action. But the casting extends beyond that full round action.

As you quoted yourself: "When you begin a spell that takes 1 round or longer to cast, you must continue the concentration from the current round to just before your turn in the next round (at least)."

-Hyp.