Why remove the Dodge feat, but add "marks"?

[RigaMortus2]

It just doesn't make any sense. I mean, if you are trying to reduce bookkeeping, why remove a feat like Dodge (where the player has to remember which creature he is Dodging, actually, the tricky part was remember to use the Dodge feat in the first place!) yet create a system where every character now has an ability to remember to use AND keep track of who is marking who. Then of course, everyone seems to have a power that requires a saving throw every round, so you have to keep track of that as well (what enemy was poisoned? which one was held? which one was put to sleep? which one was charmed?). Seems kind of self-defeating to me...

 

[keterys]

Because dodge was, face it, really lame.

The effects of marking opponents lets defenders do their jobs. That's pretty key.

Saves really didn't come up as much as people make them out to be in the games I played at DDXP, but I'd _hope_ people were tracking who was poisoned in every edition of the game

 

[jeffh]

The thinking isn't "making players keep track of things is always evil". It's "making players keep track of things is a nontrivial cost, so you'd better make sure whatever you're making them keep track of is worth the bother". Too often, Dodge wasn't. Similar comments apply to spell durations, to say nothing of their error-prone nature. Marks, on the other hand, are often "this is the bad guy I get to do cool things to", rather than just "this is the bad guy I get an extra +1 against on a stat I don't even actively roll for or anything", while the saving throw method of tracking durations seems much less fiddly than what it's replacing.

 

[hong]

If Dodge gave you something like +10 AC and +20 damage against your chosen target, you bet people would keep track of it.

It's a question of whether tracking the benefit is worth the effort. In the case of marks, they've decided to up the benefit to make it worthwhile.

 

[TwinBahamut]

The problem with Dodge is that it is a single feat (a relatively minor character feature) that requires a large amount of the player's attention for very little benefit.

Marking will be a major class feature of a whole archetype of classes, that both lets them do their main job in a fight (keep enemies focused on them) and enables them to use more powerful attacks (I think both example Defenders from DDXP have attacks that deal more damage to their marked foe than any other foe), as well as possibly many more things.

Marking may not be any simpler for a player, but it is much more powerful and important, so unlike Dodge it is worth the player's time and energy.

 

[Li Shenron]

I've never had a problem with Dodge, besides perhaps the fact that there aren't many second-tier feats to expand on it, so I don't think I'm going to have any technical problem with Marks.

The only possible problem with them is to explain them in-characters.

 

[Stalker0]

I agree with many of you that marking is better than dodge by a good margin. But I do share some of Rigamotus' concern.

I wish marking could simply be that everyone the fighter threatens takes the penalty, instead of having to choose targets. I know its more powerful, but it would help bookkeeping.

 

[Victim]

Marks basically apply to the guy you're attacking. Since it's related to the other actions a character takes, it's not that difficult to remember - in most cases, the marked target is 'the guy I just attacked.' However, the target for Dodge was basically unrelated to all other actions a character performed on its turn.

 

[CleverNickName]

We never had a problem with the Dodge feat, either. Our rogue's player got into the habit of putting a poker chip under the monster tile that she wanted to "dodge," and I got into the habit of looking for the chip at the start of every battle. It was no big deal.

I imagine a similar tactic could be employed in 4E for all of the different marks. Poker chips come in many different colors and stack easily.

 

[helium3]

Marks basically apply to the guy you're attacking. Since it's related to the other actions a character takes, it's not that difficult to remember - in most cases, the marked target is 'the guy I just attacked.' However, the target for Dodge was basically unrelated to all other actions a character performed on its turn.

I think it could go either way and we won't really know until lot's of people start playing the game. The argument that "marks will be easier to track because they do cool stuff" certainly seems to make sense, but there were lot's of "cool stuff" in 3E that were still hard to track from round to round. If they also manage to make rounds shorter, this might help as well.