Why the Encounter Powers hate? (Maneuvers = Encounter)

[Zaphling]

I read the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords again (this is a 3.5 book, mind you).

the three classes presented here (crusader, swordsage, and warblade), referred as maneuver adepts, use a "spell-like" combat system called 'maneuvers', aka 'blade magic'.

it said here in the book that at first level they can prepare around 5 maneuvers, and unlike 'spells', they can be recharged after every battle for a 5 minute rest. and they can only be used once per encounter. this is actually the reason behind 4e encounter powers.

side note: the book states that this splat book is intended for the martial classes like fighter, paladin, ranger, and etc. The book also states that the book was inspired by modern eastern kung fu or asian themed 'anime' power style like San Goku.

So for the sake of those who are not familiar what the developers have said about 'implementing a maneuver option for fighters', they are trying to give back encounter powers to them and warrior classes.

in short,

Maneuvers = Encounter Powers


(p.s.

I would like to enlighten to those who cannot understand the reason behind why encounter powers can only be used 'once'. You see, encounter powers are like 'tricks up your sleeve'. When you use it once to a single enemy, that enemy will remember that trick again, so it will not work the second time most likely. That's why you have to use a new 'trick up your sleeve' on him. Same as encounter powers.


(p.s.s. I don't hate 3.5. I still play it. although most of my games are 4e.
But i think that the maneuvers or encounter powers should go to the warrior classes like in the Book of Nine Swords. They were intended for warriors only.

 

[Agamon]

It's great as an option, but the mechanics don't lend themselves to all styles of play or campaign settings. Why would a thug with a big sword have spell-like powers?

Edit: Or are you meaning, have them as an option for certain classes? As I say, they make a great option with a good reason behind them.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

(p.s.

I would like to enlighten to those who cannot understand the reason behind why encounter powers can only be used 'once'. You see, encounter powers are like 'tricks up your sleeve'. When you use it once to a single enemy, that enemy will remember that trick again, so it will not work the second time most likely. That's why you have to use a new 'trick up your sleeve' on him. Same as encounter powers.

I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but I've heard that explanation before, but the mechanics of encounters powers don't really support it. Your ability to use a clever trick on opponent has nothing to do with when you're able to take a rest. In theory, you should be able to use that ability as many times as you like, it just may not work a second time against any opponent who saw you.

It's not a terrible description, but it doesn't really work. Let's face it, encounter powers are a simplified game mechanic, not an accurate simulation of anything. Some players are okay with that. Others aren't. Simply tying them to a stamina-like resource would go a long way toward appeasing those who dislike them, but doing so would make them more complex.

 

[jadrax]

I think you have to be very careful that the answer to 'Fighters lack power' does not become 'Play a Magic Fighter'.

I want to play a big guy that smashes stuff with his Halberd without being forced to become a semi-spell caster to be 'balanced'.

That's not to say I think Hexblades and the like should not exist, but they should not be the default assumption.

 

[n00bdragon]

Troll Your Own Topic

Because fighters with powers are:
A) magic anime bull****! [go to page 37]
B) not (my) D&D! [go to page 4]
C) identical to wizards! [go to page 42]
D) slowing the game down! [go to page 22]

 

[Raith5]

The 'trick explanation' of encounter powers make some sense for fighters and rogues. I think stamina arguments make more sense - where encounter powers are an abstract represenation of a PC who rations their stamina. Or you can have daily powers that have some recharge mechanism - say an endurance check at the end of the fight to regain your lowest level manoeuvre.

But to be honest I dont really care about the explanation or issues of 'realism'. I just want there to be options where people who want their fighters to have tactical choices in combat and to be able to make strategic decisions about rationing their resources.

 

[WotC_Trevor]

I haven't seen maneuvers yet, but lets not jump the gun. Just because the same word is used as what's in the Bo9S doesn't mean that these maneuvers they're working on for D&D Next will be encounter powers. Maybe they'll be something that can augment a normal attack, or maybe they'll be something else that doesn't really reflect the AEDU system. I don't know, but let's wait until we actually see them in the playtest before we start defining and offering feedback on them

 

[Stormonu]

(p.s.s. I don't hate 3.5. I still play it. although most of my games are 4e.
But i think that the maneuvers or encounter powers should go to the warrior classes like in the Book of Nine Swords. They were intended for warriors only.

There's a good-sized portion of 3.5er's (including me) [and those from older editions] who would never allow the Book of Nine Swords in their game. I'll bet many of those folks think the book was a 'mistake' to have ever been published at all.

 

[mlund]

I anticipate one or more classes, sub-classes, or themes with some manner of Endurance / Stamina / Ki / Power point system that recharges to some extent or another with a Short Rest. Abstract the mechanics to "points" or "slots" rather than linking it specifically to "one use of maneuver A, one use of maneuver B, one use of maneuver C, no refunds or exchanges," it tends paper over some of the immediate "WTF? Did he just forget how to trip somebody?" objections.

- Marty Lund

 

[Zaphling]

Just to be clear to those who still thinks that encounter powers are not good.

Encounter Powers are good, BUT not for all classes. This boils down to variety in gameplay. Vancian, aedu, point system, etc.

explanation for 5 minute resting: you really don't rest in the real sense of 'resting'. just another way to say that 'you need 5 minute interval for the next encounter'. in this case, most likely, you will be facing new enemies, enemies who haven't seen your 'trick up your sleeve' encounter power.