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Why the Encounter Powers hate? (Maneuvers = Encounter)
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<blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5950025" data-attributes="member: 11300"><p>Many people in my group see encounter powers as an artificially contrived kludge of a mechanic. It simplifies things from a game management perspective but in terms of representing the "game reality" we enjoy, it has a lot of shortfalls. That it works for you is cool and more power to you. However, it is most likely not ideal to preach the simplistic "trick up the sleeve" conceit as a solution as it does not work from numerous perspectives. Let's look at a couple:</p><p></p><p>***The Elven Accuracy encounter ability. This has nothing to do with the enemy and is more a narrative device for the Elf to have that edge when he needs it. There is no trick the elf is performing here except cold stone personal skill. In general the trick up the sleeve action does not work with personal actions like this and others such as a Deva's Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes. The fatigue explanation does not work either. It is a game device to allow a character to do something special but that you cannot afford in terms of playability to have spammed constantly.</p><p></p><p>***It also does not work for actions that affect your allies. Surely their knowledge of the trick up the sleeve should be an advantage, rather than a disadvantage. The Warlord's Inspiring Word, Aid the Injured or Knight's Move are some of many that fall into this category.</p><p></p><p>***However, most damning of all IS the trick up the sleeve. Let's look at Dazing Strike. Why can this only be <em>attempted </em>once per encounter? Why can't a character try it again against the same targat? Shouldn't it have a reduced chance of working rather than a "NO, you cannot attempt this again" thing? However, what about the new target who never saw the first Dazing Strike? Shouldn't it work perfectly fine on him? But once again, my character cannot even mechanically attempt it. From this perspective, encounter powers do not make sense and do not fit with how most of our group enjoys playing.</p><p></p><p>And so while these superficial explanations "can" make sense in certain circumstances (but certainly not all or even most), for players who prefer a more believable set of mechanics, these types of explanations such as fatigue, trick up the sleeve, in the moment etc. are more a band-aid for an overly simplistic mechanic.</p><p></p><p>The point is that there are two sides to this. If I put my tactical-gamer hat on, encounter powers are an elegant way of restricting resources without the accounting. If I put my believability-gamer hat on, they are are a mechanic that does a poor job of representing many of the actions that utilize this mechanic. They really suit and empower a certain style of play (Pemerton on these boards is brilliant in this regard), and they are overly-simplistic and unrepresentative for a different style of play. This is why you won't see encounter powers in the core (or at least shouldn't) but you most certainly will see them as an extra option that can be embraced or shunned as suits.</p><p></p><p>The thing here is that for D&D to sit under the one tent, it has to carefully decide what is common for all players, and what is best served as an option. Trying to tell players that an option "is really really good and this is why" is a great way of getting all the players who don't like that option upset if such things find their way into the core. Encounter powers should <em>certainly </em>be in this optional bucket; too divisive otherwise.</p><p></p><p>How does this adequately explain a new target for the same encounter power who didn't see it the first time? How does it explain not even being able to attempt it on the same target?</p><p></p><p>It is most likely best not to make assumptions as in this quote. The vast majority of players are highly intelligent and highly conversant with not only the 4e ruleset but many, many others. Sometimes we not only need to accept that people play our game differently to us, we need to embrace it! Enjoy the diversity and the different opinions, ideas and ways of doing things. Some things will be great for some and not so good for others.</p><p></p><p>Best Regards</p><p>Herremann the Wise</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Herremann the Wise, post: 5950025, member: 11300"] Many people in my group see encounter powers as an artificially contrived kludge of a mechanic. It simplifies things from a game management perspective but in terms of representing the "game reality" we enjoy, it has a lot of shortfalls. That it works for you is cool and more power to you. However, it is most likely not ideal to preach the simplistic "trick up the sleeve" conceit as a solution as it does not work from numerous perspectives. Let's look at a couple: ***The Elven Accuracy encounter ability. This has nothing to do with the enemy and is more a narrative device for the Elf to have that edge when he needs it. There is no trick the elf is performing here except cold stone personal skill. In general the trick up the sleeve action does not work with personal actions like this and others such as a Deva's Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes. The fatigue explanation does not work either. It is a game device to allow a character to do something special but that you cannot afford in terms of playability to have spammed constantly. ***It also does not work for actions that affect your allies. Surely their knowledge of the trick up the sleeve should be an advantage, rather than a disadvantage. The Warlord's Inspiring Word, Aid the Injured or Knight's Move are some of many that fall into this category. ***However, most damning of all IS the trick up the sleeve. Let's look at Dazing Strike. Why can this only be [I]attempted [/I]once per encounter? Why can't a character try it again against the same targat? Shouldn't it have a reduced chance of working rather than a "NO, you cannot attempt this again" thing? However, what about the new target who never saw the first Dazing Strike? Shouldn't it work perfectly fine on him? But once again, my character cannot even mechanically attempt it. From this perspective, encounter powers do not make sense and do not fit with how most of our group enjoys playing. And so while these superficial explanations "can" make sense in certain circumstances (but certainly not all or even most), for players who prefer a more believable set of mechanics, these types of explanations such as fatigue, trick up the sleeve, in the moment etc. are more a band-aid for an overly simplistic mechanic. The point is that there are two sides to this. If I put my tactical-gamer hat on, encounter powers are an elegant way of restricting resources without the accounting. If I put my believability-gamer hat on, they are are a mechanic that does a poor job of representing many of the actions that utilize this mechanic. They really suit and empower a certain style of play (Pemerton on these boards is brilliant in this regard), and they are overly-simplistic and unrepresentative for a different style of play. This is why you won't see encounter powers in the core (or at least shouldn't) but you most certainly will see them as an extra option that can be embraced or shunned as suits. The thing here is that for D&D to sit under the one tent, it has to carefully decide what is common for all players, and what is best served as an option. Trying to tell players that an option "is really really good and this is why" is a great way of getting all the players who don't like that option upset if such things find their way into the core. Encounter powers should [I]certainly [/I]be in this optional bucket; too divisive otherwise. How does this adequately explain a new target for the same encounter power who didn't see it the first time? How does it explain not even being able to attempt it on the same target? It is most likely best not to make assumptions as in this quote. The vast majority of players are highly intelligent and highly conversant with not only the 4e ruleset but many, many others. Sometimes we not only need to accept that people play our game differently to us, we need to embrace it! Enjoy the diversity and the different opinions, ideas and ways of doing things. Some things will be great for some and not so good for others. Best Regards Herremann the Wise [/QUOTE]
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