Why we have Golden Wyvern Adepts.

Cadfan

First Post
Another GWA thread! Just what the forum needs!

Actually, I think I can add something to the conversation. This is supposition, but I think the analysis is solid.

In 3e, spells were divided into schools based on what was primarily a distinction of fluff. Now, this fluff had some rules implications, so it wasn't strictly fluff related. But it was mostly fluff. As a result, there was a lot of overlap between the schools. For example, if you want to incinerate your foes with an area effect fire attack, you can do it with evocation, or you can do it with conjuration. If you want to debuff your foes, you could do it with transmutation, or you could do it with necromancy, and in some cases with even other schools. It wasn't quite chaos, cats and dogs living together, world-gonna-end stuff, but it wasn't the best. When a new spell was written, it could easily fit into multiple schools depending on the fluff attached to it. That had the mechanical implication of watering down the schools, and many people believed it wasn't really the best for the game- after all, it tended to make wizards who focused in different schools kind of the same.

In 4e, WOTC seems to have agreed with this assessment. Now "schools" are replaced with different categories, six of them, based around the manner in which the effect occurs in the game. A power which projects from the wizard is one school, and a power which manifests at a distance without traveling the route in between is another. This should conclusively put to rest the way that fluff caused mechanical slippage between the schools.

Except now there's a problem. The new schools mingle the old schools stuff. The older edition might have a spell which debuffs in a cone that functioned through sapping life force (necromancy), another which detrimentally augmented its targets (transmutation), another which mentally affected its targets (enchantment), another which creates a distracting illusion (illusion), another which summons distracting insects (conjuration), and so on and so on.

Now they're all just stuffed in the same "school that tosses out cones of stuff" school. And there's no obvious name for that school based on fluff that derives from common D&D history.

So, having divided the fluff and the mechanics of spellcasting so that the fluff couldn't interfere with the mechanics any further, they needed new names. No names directly lended themselves, so... they used arbitrary ones. And having given the schools arbitrary names, they game feats which augment that particular school names which directly mentioned that school. Its the logical thing to do at that point.

That's... kind of it. This isn't so much a post defending this particular name choice. I'm in the "don't care, its not a big deal" camp. But I think this might lend some clarity to how this all came about.

If you absolutely hate the present names, you should probably try to come up with some better ones. Some name of some sort is necessary. If you come up with good ones, who knows, maybe they'll use them.

It won't bother me either way.
 

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That is a very good supposition, and I personally think you are onto something. It would be interesting to get this confirmed (but then again it would be interesting to get the entire rules set confirmed ;) )
A bit like the names for the 9 sword styles, the stances etc are all related but there is a need for a fluff type name cos no 'straightforward' name presents. I am in the 'I hate GWA camp', but (sorry Mr Mearls) I maybe jumping to conclusions without the full info... I like Golden Wyvern Adept better than Cone Shaped Ranged Effect Adept! or Wizard of the Cone Adept (I know- groan!)
Edit: man I could do this all day: Adept of the Ranged-cone Shaped Effects.....
 
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That is an interesting way of thinking about it, but the article on Wizard implements seemed to focus more on energy types than what the spells actualy did (at least in my mind.)

Though, now that you mention it, that does see like a good system of organizing wizard magic.

(I absolutely hated Schools of magic in 3e, but I am not too keen on the new ones either.)
 

Cadfan, I feel like you're reading my mind! I've been thinking the same thing for a while now ... I'd have even posted it but I thought I had read the idea here first! :p

Count me in the camp of not caring about the name, particularly if this is the reason behind it. Likely all the other "Golden Wyvern" feats will be about altering those in themantically similar ways as well.
 

Caliber said:
Cadfan, I feel like you're reading my mind! I've been thinking the same thing for a while now ... I'd have even posted it but I thought I had read the idea here first! :p

Count me in the camp of not caring about the name, particularly if this is the reason behind it. Likely all the other "Golden Wyvern" feats will be about altering those in themantically similar ways as well.

Heh, if so I'm gonna make the magic-users in my campaign fight an actual golden wyvern, and it's gonna have innate metamagic abilities so they can never hit it. Because THE PLAYERS ARE MY ENEMY!
 

Insightful!

Even from that perspective, though, I think they could've picked better names. Maybe there aren't any names that directly imply "cone-shaped magic" or whatever, but the names could've at least been related to each other in some way. The fairly random Adjective Noun pairs make the categories feel more specific, when apparently they're supposed to be pretty comprehensive.
 


Great insight.

However, the names still stink. Why not just make "Cone Magic" and encourage players to come up with their own names? I know I can rename them, but I'd still hat to open my rulebooks to "Emerald Frost".
 

I never thought of that. I can get behind that completely. Makes a great deal of sense. If the "schools" are defined by effect, rather than cause, it's pretty difficult to come up with a single description that covers all effects. Current schools of magic are all defined by their source, not the effect.

Honestly, I think that these names are going to become the shorthand for whatever effect they are defining. If I say conjuration spell, that doesn't really tell you a whole lot about what it can do - it could be bringing in a monster, or it could be pretty much an evocation spell with the edges filed off to make it an orb ;) . But, if GWA means "Spells that control terrain and related effects", then I think it will work.

Just as a question, cos I missed it the first time around. What's wrong with Emerald Frost? Emerald's are green, not yellow, so I'm missing the pee joke I think.
 

WarlockLord said:
Great insight.

However, the names still stink. Why not just make "Cone Magic" and encourage players to come up with their own names? I know I can rename them, but I'd still hat to open my rulebooks to "Emerald Frost".

Because if there is any uglier name than Emerald Frost, it is Cone Magic. We need to find an evocative name that is generic enough not to ruffle any feathers. It is Dungeons and Dragons, not Challenge Areas and Creatures to Fight.
 
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