Why won't WOtC let another company publish...

[Imaro]

Just some random pondering here, but I was wondering why WoTC won't allow a secondary company to publish their old settings such as Dark Sun, Planescape, Al-Quadim etc. I know that White Wolf did another version of Ravenloft, but I feel that the other settings, especially Dark Sun and Planescape would have sold better. Why? Because Planescape and Dark Sun are rooted in sword and sorcery fantasy, whereas Ravenloft is not. Dark Sun is Conan, Kane of Mars etc. type fantasy while Planescape is Moorcockian Eternal Champion multiverse and Roger Zelany amberite(not sure if I spelled that right) type swords and sorcery.

In fact why doesn't WoTC do either a limited book run, sort of like WW's Promethean line for these settings. I don't think that type of model or the one above would really hurt their sales, especially with the numerous settings and variants published under the OGL, and they might just discover a gold mine in one of these old settings and continue its run. I could even see a limited release and then a switch to POD after the run is sold out to minimize cost.

On a side note: Does D&D 3.x have a setting that could be classified as old school swords and sorcery? If so what is it? Personally I think Greyhawk is the closest to this, but still heavily influenced by tolkienesque fantsy. Perhaps the gaming audience is slowly splitting for D&D. Being in my late twenties my earlier introduction to fantasy was swords and sorcery, didn't read Tolkien until college, but I also found joy in the wave of Final Fantasy and anime influences as well. Now I feel Eberon scratches the latter itch but what about the type of fantasy I found first? How many people would buy a setting that harkened back to the swords and sorcery genre?

 

[Aaron L]

I imagine if someone wanted to license them like White Wolf did with Ravenloft, then they would go for it, since WotC did allow that to go through, after all. The problem is it doesn't appear anyone actually wants to license them.


The athas.org Dark Sun rules are keeping me pretty happy, and there aren't really any other settings I care about. Al-Qadim I never cared for (Arabian culture isn't my cup of tea.) I would have preferred a better treatment of Ravenloft, but the White Wolf stuff was better than nothing. Planescape I mildly despised. Greyhawk is about all I'm missing (and I'm dearly missing it, to be sure.)

I would absolutely adore it if WotC did one-off books for the old campaign settings, (all of them, just because I didn't like Planescape doesn't mean I don't want it made for all those others who did like it) ala` the FRCS and ECS, but I imagine it would be quite expensive to get those high quality books made without the economy-of-scale advantages those two CS books had, and I don't imagine they would have large enough sales to justify an economy-of-scale situation if they weren't going to be fully supported like the Realms or Eberron is. And I know WotC isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot the way TSR did by making multiple competing game lines simultaneously.



So, I don't think WotC is the factor in keeping the old settings from being made by other companies, it's the lack of interest from those other companies that's doing the job.

 

[JVisgaitis]

I'm sure WotC would love to do a license with someone for those properties. If memory serves, their contract stipulates that they create the initial core book and all subsequent books are handled by the license holder. At least I think that was the case with Dragonlance if I remember correctly what Margaret and Renae had told me.

 

[BadMojo]

Just a guess, but I'd imagine WotC would license out Planescape or Dark Sun if someone offered enough money for them. Another guess, if I were WotC I'd want to make sure that the company using my IP would meet high standards in both content and production.

Are there many companies out there willing to pay for the license and then produce an expensive book that's only going to appeal to a niche audience (a niche audience in a niche hobby)?

There aren't many publishers left with the finances to do a really lavish licensed property hardcover book, and the ones that are around probably don't want to risk it with stuff that doesn't look like a sure thing.

 

[Imaro]

Now see I find the we produce the corebook and you produce supplements kind of... well unfair. Most money from rpg's are made on the corebook.

As far as being niche products so are alot of things that came out sice the d20/ OGL, I don't know if that necessrily means its not worth it. However with the above model+ licensing fee+niche product, yeah I could see most companies passing on it.

IMHO just seems a shame. I've always enjoyed the imaginative part of roleplaying, and even though I didn't like all of them(and they may have contributed to TSR's downfall) I think some of the settings they came out with during AD&D 2e were some of the coolest and most interesting that I've seen for fantasy gaming by far, at least more interesting than the steady stream of new feats, PrC's and classes that come out now.

I had hopped that the new setting from the contest would be a more sword and sorcery type setting, but alas it was not so. Guess I'll have to pick up runequest(with the Lankhmar and Eternal Champion stuff) to scratch that itch. Or maybe homebrew( but I really don't have the time, that's why I buy settings )

 

[Dragonhelm]

I'm sure WotC would love to do a license with someone for those properties. If memory serves, their contract stipulates that they create the initial core book and all subsequent books are handled by the license holder. At least I think that was the case with Dragonlance if I remember correctly what Margaret and Renae had told me.

Yes it is. Ravenloft wasn't done that way, but I believe everything since was. Oriental Adventures, though it had its own circumstances, served as the initial sourcebook for the L5R d20 line of products.

The question is whether or not support products can bring about a profit above and beyond licensing fees. The initial sourcebook for any setting will be its biggest seller, as even casual fans might pick it up. Anything else, though, will appeal more to die-hard fans.

Dragonlance is lucky enough to have a successful novel line to follow. Not so with Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer, and so forth. So it stands to reason that the likelihood of them being licensed isn't too good. There are, however, several great official fan sites dedicated to updating each setting, such as Athas.org, Beyond the Moons (www.spelljammer.org ), and so forth.

 

[Pramas]

Back in 2002 WotC asked us if we were intersted in Dark Sun. I said sure, but that we were even more interested in Al-Qadim (that being my favorite of the 2E settings). This seemed to surprise them but they were willing to talk. This was the point when they were doing things like licensing out Ravenloft. A few months later something must have happened because they put the brakes on the whole thing.

I will say I was very surprised when they started licensing stuff out because the internal analysis leading up to 3E had been that having that many campaign settings had been a mistake. It seemed strange to say that and then let other companies bring them all back. I think it's likely that thinking reasserted itself and that's why Dark Sun and Al-Qadim did not get licensed out.

 

[jim pinto]

I remember AEG and White Wolf bidding for Dark Sun.

But, I agree with Chris' assessment.

 

[molonel]

http://www.athas.org/faq/

 

[S'mon]

"On a side note: Does D&D 3.x have a setting that could be classified as old school swords and sorcery?"

Other than d20 Conan, I'd say Judges' Guild Wilderlands, published by Necromancer, fits the s&S bill (unlike 'Swords & Sorcery Studios'/White Wolf's Scarred Lands!). See eg:
http://secure1.white-wolf.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=64&products_id=670