Why wouldn't you always cast on the defensive?

[swrushing]

Actually, that's the problem. D&D is turn-based for purposes of simplification.

Actually, i tend to describe DND initiative as ACTOR based initiative. its the WHO is performing the action that determines when the action is resolved instead of ACTION based where its the WHAT that is being done that determines the resolution.

ACTOR based, WHO, means the faster guy can draw his sword and rush across the room and strike you (drawing along the way actually) before you can fire your loaded crossbow at him.

if it were action based, the crossbow shot would go off first, or as he closes, since its the quicker action.

Its not necessarily a simplification... there are plenty of simple systems that are action based with the WHO, the ACTOR and hus stats being simply tiebreakers.

I am less enamored of the ACTOR based approach than i once was. It tends to slow things down quite a bit in my experience.

 

[Endur]

This is off-topic, but the 5' backup with no AOO does not make any sense. It is a rule in the PHB, but its not based on reality.

If you backup 5', you should provoke an AOO. Why? You don't know what's behind you. There could be a hole in the ground or debris to trip over or a dead body or an enemy with a dagger. Most of the time, you'll have to look in that direction before you move, which should generate the AOO.

Rank and File troops in formation never backup for this very reason. Instead, their formation turns, then it marches in the new direction.

Why should I get a free AoO on someone who backs away from me and casts a spell? He's perfectly alert while he's backing away. I have the option of making a 5 foot step and full attacking him, too. Backing up is very safe, but of course, it's backing up. If your opponent has a reach weapon or you run out of room to back up, this comes into play. Also, if after you've moved back a couple of times, a savvy fighter may bull rush you back even further, putting you out of range of allies or enemies.

 

[Dursk Starkfire]

Casting Defensively is NEVER gauranteed! It doesn't matter if you have +20 on the roll!

A roll of 1 is always a fumble, on a task. Regardless of skill, regardless of natural ability. You always have a 5% chance to fail.

This is not true of skill checks, only of attack and saving throws.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I think the free 5' move makes sense. You're spending as much time to move 5' as you would otherwise be spending to move 30'. It's a controlled retreat. You're fighting and defending as you move.

On the subject of abstraction of combat... Of course it's abstract! A round lasts 6 seconds, right? "Realistically," everybody in the combat is doing their action during the SAME 6 SECOND PERIOD. Regardless of what they rolled for Initiative. The way we do it is to have people go one at a time, taking their full 6 seconds worth of actions before the next person is allowed to go and take their 6 seconds worth of actions. It breaks down fundamentally if you think about it for more than a few seconds.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you backup 5', you should provoke an AOO. Why? You don't know what's behind you. There could be a hole in the ground or debris to trip over or a dead body or an enemy with a dagger. Most of the time, you'll have to look in that direction before you move, which should generate the AOO.

Notice that you can attack someone south of you without provoking an AoO from the person north of you. And it's fairly likely that you'll be looking south when you do it.

-Hyp.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I think you can also split up your attacks - if you have 4 attacks, take the first one against the target to the north, the second against the target to the south, the third against the target to the north, and the forth against the target to the south. Fun stuff.

 

[Endur]

And when you do that, you give each of your opponents a +2 to hit you and they have an easier chance to hit a vital spot (i.e. that's where the flanking bonus comes from and why Rogues get sneak attack damage when flanking).

Notice that you can attack someone south of you without provoking an AoO from the person north of you. And it's fairly likely that you'll be looking south when you do it.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

And when you do that, you give each of your opponents a +2 to hit you and they have an easier chance to hit a vital spot (i.e. that's where the flanking bonus comes from and why Rogues get sneak attack damage when flanking).

Yup. But no AoO.

And, of course, you can make your attacks, "turning your back" on each in turn, and then take a 5' step east, and they no longer get those bonuses anyway.

That 5' step doesn't involve turning your back on either of them, so even by your proposed house rule, the 5' step wouldn't draw an AoO.

-Hyp.

 

[ciaran00]

People, that's what flank rules are for

ciaran

 

[pawsplay]

This is off-topic, but the 5' backup with no AOO does not make any sense. It is a rule in the PHB, but its not based on reality.


On what do you base this? I have about a decade of experience in combat sports, and while I've seen a few accidents caused by incautious backing up, that is definitely the exception. It is not difficult to glance down or behind you with your guard up. In my experience, taking out the spellcaster before he casts is more akin to a Charge action. Having a spellcaster back up while his buddies delay an opponent so he can rattle off a ten line poem is nothing but standard tactics.