D&D 5E (2014) Why you shouldn't allow optional rules.

[Derren]

Frankly, I'm tired of games that try to cater around min maxers.

Problem is that according to some reports it is enough to roll well during chracter creation (without any special houserules which result in higher attributes), put the high values into the primary stat for the class just as the quick build rules tell you and take a, depending on your class rather obvious and thematically fitting, feat to be considered a min-maxer or rather to have the same effect as one on the game.

 

[Umbran]

Problem is that according to some reports...

As far as your own table is concerned, personal experience trumps "some reports". If it doesn't cause a problem for you, at your table, what others report is irrelevant.

Also remember that the vast majority of folks who are playing the game with no issues are *not reporting*. Few will come to EN World to start a thread to say, "My game is going fine, with options A, B, and C. No hitches to speak of! We're having fun!" So, you expect a significant over-representation of problems in the reports.

 

[jodyjohnson]

I appreciate the heads up:
1. Rolled stats may unbalance the game - check.
2. At the "save the world" tier characters are capable of saving the world - check.
3. Power gamers sow the seeds of their campaign's destruction - check.
4. Different strokes for different folks - check.
5. You can't do non-lethal damage with an arrow to the eye - check.

 

[Mephista]

Problem is that according to some reports it is enough to roll well during chracter creation (without any special houserules which result in higher attributes), put the high values into the primary stat for the class just as the quick build rules tell you and take a, depending on your class rather obvious and thematically fitting, feat to be considered a min-maxer or rather to have the same effect as one on the game.

That'... has nothing to do with what I was saying. Min-maxing is a mindset and style of play - its actually independent of stats. Min-maxers may push for high stats, but that doesn't mean that everyone with high stats is an optimizer or munchkin.


When you build a game that's worried about them primarily, you end up with a game that's less focused in the Rule of Cool. I much prefer a game that's primarily designed around the latter.

 

[Derren]

That'... has nothing to do with what I was saying. Min-maxing is a mindset and style of play - its actually independent of stats. Min-maxers may push for high stats, but that doesn't mean that everyone with high stats is an optimizer or munchkin.


When you build a game that's worried about them primarily, you end up with a game that's less focused in the Rule of Cool. I much prefer a game that's primarily designed around the latter.

The point is that apparently people can become a "min-maxer" by accident as it is rather easy to create very powerful characters just by following guidelines, rolling well and taking a thematically relevant feat.

PS: I absolutely abhor the "Rule of Cool", but that is a different topic.

 

[Rhenny]

Level of challenge and lethalness will always be subjective and subject to personal preferences. That is why WoTC made 5e "rulings not rules" focused. It is a smart choice.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Problem is that according to some reports it is enough to roll well during chracter creation (without any special houserules which result in higher attributes), put the high values into the primary stat for the class just as the quick build rules tell you and take a, depending on your class rather obvious and thematically fitting, feat to be considered a min-maxer or rather to have the same effect as one on the game.

Problem? Stats have a range and sometimes characters will be in the upper reaches of that range and sometimes not. In my experience with 5E thus far, the game doesn't "break" just because of a high stat or even several high stats.

Where are these "reports" and who taught those DMs how to run a game? I have a halfling rogue in one of my campaigns who has a level of fighter and took archery style. The character has +8 to hit with bow attacks (+4 DEX +2 Prof +2 style) OMG OVERPOWERED!!!

Hardly. Not to mention that this PC is a member of a party of eight player characters. With such OP characters and so many of them, how could anyone run an adventure to challenge them?

It's been a blast. The last several sessions they have been running on fumes in desperate need of a long rest but unsure about taking one. Just last session they finally got a breather but not before the warlock was dropped by relentless zombies that JUST...WOULDN'T...DIE.

Creating challenges for this large powerful party has been a lot of fun.

 

[Derren]

Where are these "reports" and who taught those DMs how to run a game? I have a halfling rogue in one of my campaigns who has a level of fighter and took archery style. The character has +8 to hit with bow attacks (+4 DEX +2 Prof +2 style) OMG OVERPOWERED!!!

Add Sharpershooter (-5/+10) and then come back. Or see the "Why should I allow Feats" thread.

 

[Mistwell]

I find it's most fun to let the players adjust to the level of customization they like the most, and then I as a DM adjust what I challenge them with accordingly. The CR system is very helpful for this - it's a baseline I can increase as the PC power increases.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Add Sharpershooter (-5/+10) and then come back. Or see the "Why should I allow Feats" thread.

I allow feats and multi-classing. Since this player decided to go rogue 1/ fighter 1/ wizard 1 and now rogue 2, it may be awhile before a feat becomes available.