Why you shouldn't use 5 ft corridors

[MerricB]

It seems that some designers still don't understand that an entire dungeon of 5 ft corridors is not fun. It is especially not fun when you have a party of 6 PCs (not unknown in the D&D world). It is extra especially not fun when those 5' corridors wind around and so the back two PCs can't even *see* the encounter the front two PCs are experiencing.

One of the big things with D&D that we've been realising is that D&D combat is most fun when mobility is encouraged. When there's more to it than stand toe-to-toe and swing swords blindly.

I don't mind the odd encounter where movement is restricted. I hate it when you have 5-6 hours of dungeoneering where some people can't participate because the map was ill-designed.

In particular, I draw your attention to "There is No Honor" by James Jacobs, that suffers this in spades.

Realism? I understand it, but this is a game. We're here to have fun.

Please designers, don't use 5' corridors unless it's only for a couple of encounters. They suck the fun out of a game.

Cheers!

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

If you're PCs are dumb enough to stand toe-to-toe in constricted environs instead of drawing the enemy back to where they have more room to fight, it's their own fault.

Any time the same tactical situation comes up 100% of the time it gets old, but I don't see this as a problem. More often than not, it's just the players being lazy or stuck in a rut.

 

[MerricB]

Your mission is to go into the passages and eliminate what you find there. For some reason, the enemy is intelligent enough not to follow you out and lose its advantage.

How does that make my players dumb?

 

[Varianor Abroad]

I think your players need more access to Mass Reduce Person. (For them or the NPCs.)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I have to agree on the Mass Reduce Person.

Given how many races in D&D are smaller than humans, 10' wide corridors -- except when they want to herd tall folks some place bad -- are lunacy.

 

[James Jacobs]

Merric: I can certainly see where you're coming from, but I have to respectfully disagree with your claim that dungeons with five-foot wide corridors are "poorly designed."

Problem is, the game's based on five-foot squares, and ten-foot squares simply aren't realistic when it comes to most complexes. Most hallways in modern buildings aren't even five feet wide, so making five foot wide dungeon passageways is actually pretty roomy. In a game that's heavilly based on miniatures combat, I can see where designing complexes with ten-foot-wide corridors is a benefit, and that's CERTAINLY why the D&D minis-legal maps take pains to make things ten feet wide. Personally, I think that results in some realy ugly maps.

For something like the dungeons in "There is no Honor" making the hallways ten feet wide makes no sense to me, especially if the only reason to do so is to make combat there easier for intruders. If the thieves can pin down intruders in hallways, good for them!

I think a bigger problem is too many combats against the same types of foes; and that's a problem that I do admit that "There is no Honor" suffers from. But; it's also one that's easilly remidied; once you and/or your group is sick of fighting rogues, it's simple enough for the DM to decide that that last fight was with the last of the local thieves and all that remains are the boss fights.

Anyway... the map for "TinH" may be poorly designed for minis play, but it's not meant to be a minis game. It's for the RPG version of D&D, and as a result I feel that it does its job perfectly.

What DOES annoy me is how draconian the game is about how many folk can stand in a single five-foot square at once. It's stupid to think that two humans can't fight back to back in a single five-foot square. Perhaps they'll take some penalties, but it just smacks of "we don't want to encourage miniatures standing in the same square so let's not allow it." Lame.

 

[mhensley]

You're right.

We need more dungeons with some 3' corridors or 2' crawl spaces. All over the place. I'm getting really tired of everybody and their brother using reach weapons and two handed weapons.

Those tunnels in Vietnam are going to look spacious compared to my next dungeon. Better pack a dagger, cause you're going to need it.

 

[kaomera]

It is extra especially not fun when those 5' corridors wind around and so the back two PCs can't even *see* the encounter the front two PCs are experiencing.

And, of course, even better if the front four PCs can't see the encounter the back ranks are having!

 

[mhensley]

What DOES annoy me is how draconian the game is about how many folk can stand in a single five-foot square at once. It's stupid to think that two humans can't fight back to back in a single five-foot square. Perhaps they'll take some penalties, but it just smacks of "we don't want to encourage miniatures standing in the same square so let's not allow it." Lame.

They could fix this by going with 3' squares like GURPS does.

 

[MerricB]

I think your players need more access to Mass Reduce Person. (For them or the NPCs.)

This is an adventure for 1st level PCs. It's a little out of their range.