Michael Silverbane
Adventurer
mhensley said:
Don't you think that'd just result in a tendancy to create dungeons with 3 foot wide corridors?
Later
silver
Why you shouldn't use 5 ft corridors
- Thread starter MerricB
- Start date
Don't you think that'd just result in a tendancy to create dungeons with 3 foot wide corridors?
Later
silver
Primitive Screwhead
First Post
MerricB said:
THe RAW, at least in the SRD, don't address two people standing side by side directly. However there is the penalty to attacks/AC while 'squeezing' past an opponent. The key is that the characters can't end there turn in the same space, instead dropping back to the most recent legal position.
I read this to allow the second rank to step forward, squeezing in with the front line fighter...take a shot at the bad guy and then slip back. In this manner you could have two fighters 'on the front line' of a 5' hallway.
Personally I would be okay with this being a 5' step forward and allow a full attack, but the slipping back may draw an AoO.
And depending on your party makeup, combat in a 5' hallway could be a serious advantage.. Dwarf tank in the front, dual wielding Ranger/Rogue second, Polearm fighter third.. then your casters. Just need to make sure the group has the 'chinese fire drill' down for when someone comes up behind them.
Chimera
First Post
I had one of my players in my last campaign argue the same thing. "Make everything big and roomy so that it's easier and more fun". Only problem was that I had made it clear up front that I was trying to make it HARDER so that they had to think and act more intelligently.
The two times they came into winding 5' corridors, they pulled the usual "I move to here, cast a spell", "I move to here and do X". They got completely boxed in so that only one person was engaged in melee combat, with pretty much every available enemy wailing on them.
From my perspective, they were victims of their own excessive caution and insistence on small movements in the face of the enemy, who then had time to react and work strong defensive positions.
Either get in there and attack, or try alternative ideas. Fidgeting in the hall is counter productive.
The two times they came into winding 5' corridors, they pulled the usual "I move to here, cast a spell", "I move to here and do X". They got completely boxed in so that only one person was engaged in melee combat, with pretty much every available enemy wailing on them.
From my perspective, they were victims of their own excessive caution and insistence on small movements in the face of the enemy, who then had time to react and work strong defensive positions.
Either get in there and attack, or try alternative ideas. Fidgeting in the hall is counter productive.
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
James Jacobs said:
Since 2E days I have ruled that two medium creatures can stand in the same box, if they are allies, but suffer a -2 to attack rolls. If third person tries to get in the same box, all lose their Dexterity bonus and suffer a -4 to their attack rolls.
This means that two small creatures can be in the same square in my game with NO penalties.
It works for us.
MoogleEmpMog
First Post
I absolutely agree with Merric.
Cramped corridors for a whole dungeon complex are incredibly boring. Cramped corridors in general aren't all that interesting or tactical. I find *far* more tactical challenge in properly exploiting a multi-level open-air room with plenty of staircases and pillars for cover, opportunities to flank with the attendant risks of same, etc.
Cramped corridors for a whole dungeon complex are incredibly boring. Cramped corridors in general aren't all that interesting or tactical. I find *far* more tactical challenge in properly exploiting a multi-level open-air room with plenty of staircases and pillars for cover, opportunities to flank with the attendant risks of same, etc.
Wik
First Post
Going back to There is No Honour, much of it I thought worked out great for us - the Fighter could hold a spot while the rest of the group did things like, you know, heal him, cast spells, and whatnot.
About the only time those narrow hallways came into play was with the boss fight - her place was way too cramped for her to reasonably tumble around the PCs, and only half the group could get into the fight. I changed things a bit, though, and had the remainder of the rogues attack from behind, so that half my group was fighting off rogues while the other half was in the boss fight. It ran reasonably well.
About the only time those narrow hallways came into play was with the boss fight - her place was way too cramped for her to reasonably tumble around the PCs, and only half the group could get into the fight. I changed things a bit, though, and had the remainder of the rogues attack from behind, so that half my group was fighting off rogues while the other half was in the boss fight. It ran reasonably well.
Suggested Tactics in confined spaces:
Tumble past opponent - an excellent tactic at higher levels. However, at 2nd level, the PCs will have a Tumble score of +8 or so, and need a 25. Not an option
Cast Mass Reduce - Not available at 2nd level.
Use Reach or Ranged Weapons - in the most extreme encounter, only three PCs had LOS to the monster. They tried. Even so, at 2nd level, the +4 cover bonus for reach weapons is going to make things very, very hard indeed.
Use Bull Rush - Provoke an Attack of Opportunity to begin with... then have to beat an opposed Strength check. One opponent has a +8 to this check, another a +7. It'll probably work with the thieves (only +1).
Anything else people can suggest?
Cheers!
Tumble past opponent - an excellent tactic at higher levels. However, at 2nd level, the PCs will have a Tumble score of +8 or so, and need a 25. Not an option
Cast Mass Reduce - Not available at 2nd level.
Use Reach or Ranged Weapons - in the most extreme encounter, only three PCs had LOS to the monster. They tried. Even so, at 2nd level, the +4 cover bonus for reach weapons is going to make things very, very hard indeed.
Use Bull Rush - Provoke an Attack of Opportunity to begin with... then have to beat an opposed Strength check. One opponent has a +8 to this check, another a +7. It'll probably work with the thieves (only +1).
Anything else people can suggest?
Cheers!
Wik said:
How many PCs did you have, Wik?
I have a pretty melee-heavy party, it must be admitted (most of the players found high-level spellcasters too challenging during Age of Worms).
PCs:
Human Ranger w. Greatsword (& Bow)
Human Swashbuckler w. Rapier
Human Scout w. Lt Crossbow
Human Rogue w. Rapier & dagger
Human Wizard
Human Cleric w. Mace
Most PCs had a ranged weapon, but weren't good with it.
Cheers!
Festivus
First Post
I felt that the passageways setup a particularly thrilling encounter just outside the training hall. One member of the party became separated from the rest of the group by a pair of lotus dragons. The poor gnome was hit and fell into negatives... a goner for sure, with the lotus dragon moving above his unconcious body ready to finish him off with a coup-de-grace. There were some real heroics to save him... well that and a failed saving throw.
There were a lot of passages, but those also led to some Han Solo / Chewbacca type moments where they would chase one down a corridor and come into a room of a half dozen more, and then come running back.
I found the adventure overall entertaining to judge, and the passages didn't get that much in the way. My group however might be different because they were setup nicely for corridor style fighting. Tank up front, a guy with a reach weapon behind him, and then three ranged attacker or spell caster types in the rear.
There were a lot of passages, but those also led to some Han Solo / Chewbacca type moments where they would chase one down a corridor and come into a room of a half dozen more, and then come running back.
I found the adventure overall entertaining to judge, and the passages didn't get that much in the way. My group however might be different because they were setup nicely for corridor style fighting. Tank up front, a guy with a reach weapon behind him, and then three ranged attacker or spell caster types in the rear.
