Wild Shape- 15 HD Limit?

[the Jester]

So... in the description of Wild Shape it says that it functions like polymorph except as noted otherwise... it also says that a druid can become a creature of no more HD than his druid level. Polymorph has a 15 HD limit; does wild shape? In other words, is the no more HD than level an additional limit or does it replace the 15 HD limit of polymorph?

 

[ForceUser]

Wildshape does not cap at 15 HD. A 30th level druid can wildshape into a 30 HD critter - and why not?

 

[jgsugden]

I've received conflicting answers from custserv, but the majority concnesus is that the HD limitation in the wildshape ability overrides the HD limitation in polymorph, so there is no 15 HD limit for wildshaping.

 

[Vysirez]

I've received conflicting answers from custserv, but the majority concnesus is that the HD limitation in the wildshape ability overrides the HD limitation in polymorph, so there is no 15 HD limit for wildshaping.

I have to add my vote to the majority, the wildshape description says like polymorph except as follows, one of the things that follows is the statement that druid can wildshape into anything up to his HD. Another way to look at it, is if they meant to use the HD limits in polymorph why would they restate it in the wildshape description.

 

[youspoonybard]

Aren't Huge elementals more than 20 HD?

It would be stupid to give the Druid the ability to become a Huge elemental, if they can't turn into one.

Is my memory faulty, or in the 3.5 DMG does it say something in the Epic rule section like "The Druid's forms are still limited to their HD" or something like that?

 

[shilsen]

Aren't Huge elementals more than 20 HD?

It would be stupid to give the Druid the ability to become a Huge elemental, if they can't turn into one.

Correct. Huge elementals are 24 HD.

Is my memory faulty, or in the 3.5 DMG does it say something in the Epic rule section like "The Druid's forms are still limited to their HD" or something like that?

You may be remembering something else. The 3.5 DMG section on the epic druid (pg.208) makes no such mention of druid forms and HD.

 

[the Jester]

Thanks, I'm convinced! I'm gonna run it that way... which frightens me, with a 10th-level shifter in my game.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

a 10th-level shifter in my game.

Be very careful. The shifter in 3.0 was tough to deal with ... the shifter in 3.5 is seriously unbalanced. IMO, broken.

I have a player who was heading toward the shifter PrC (had just gained a level in it), and even he agreed it was out of control. So we've built a similar PrC from scratch and are gonna playtest it.

 

[the Jester]

Be very careful. The shifter in 3.0 was tough to deal with ... the shifter in 3.5 is seriously unbalanced. IMO, broken.

I have a player who was heading toward the shifter PrC (had just gained a level in it), and even he agreed it was out of control. So we've built a similar PrC from scratch and are gonna playtest it.

What did you find so problematic about it? Do you think the loss of spellcasting is truly overpowered by the gain in shapechanging? I've already discovered that, given time, the shifter can fully heal herself by changing shape a bunch...