Wild Shape Fixes - Because It's OP


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ktkenshinx

First Post
Hey all. I've found Wild Shape to be insanely good. Too good. Not sure if anyone else is having that experience, but I came up with some variant rules. Take a peak and let me know which you think is best or if you think I'm wrong!

http://worldbuilderblog.me/2014/11/06/born-to-be-wild/
Why would you need to make any changes to Wild Shape? The blogpost itself suggests that the only really broken part of it is when it is used by a level 20 Druid. Otherwise, the CR restrictions are more than enough to keep the animal in check. They just don't have enough HP/AC to be as broken as I think this post makes them out to be.

What exactly is your concern with Wild Shaping?
 

Jimbro

Explorer
Why would you need to make any changes to Wild Shape? The blogpost itself suggests that the only really broken part of it is when it is used by a level 20 Druid. Otherwise, the CR restrictions are more than enough to keep the animal in check. They just don't have enough HP/AC to be as broken as I think this post makes them out to be.

What exactly is your concern with Wild Shaping?

Hey I think I cover beyond 20th in the blog post, but I'm happy to elaborate.

Having 34 HP as a bear TWICE every SHORT rest is a lot. A barbarian with 20 Con who rolls a 12 (max) on his or her hit dice when leveling has 34 HP, so the druid gets to be there TWICE before it's natural form is even damaged, plus a multiattack, and can recharge that in just a short rest. That's better than any spell at that level. The trend continues like that as the druid levels.
 

ceiling90

First Post
The thing is before level 18? You can't do anything else but be a bear. You can't talk to your party, you can't cast spells, you can't even use items. You can't bloody climb up a ladder. We're only level 4, and the Druid is nowhere near the same powerhouse our Wizard tends to be with Sleep - remember, not until level 6 do they even get an option to bypass magical resistance and immmunities; which would be irrelevant if they were Druids of the Land casting things like Flaming Sphere instead.

But let's look at that Barbarian, the Barbarian has two or three really awesome things that happen when she rages - one they can choose to gain advantage to strength attack rolls, two they gain resistance to damage, and three they get a +2 to all weapon based damage rolls, that's at level 2. They effectively have double the HP due to their rage, and ridiculous damage potential from constant advantage, large weapon dice, and auto bonus to damage rolls.

I really do think it evens out. It just sounds insane because the Druid is still a primary caster that turn into a brown bear. Thankfully, they can't cast and be a brown bear until somewhere like level 18. At which point I think all classes become patently ridiculous anyway.

I mean if you feel that way, sure; but I feel that my level 4 Dex Battlemaster Figher (I shoot things, my melee weapons are crossbows...) is a better front line fighter than our Moon Cirlce Druid being a brown bear or a tiger.
 

Jimbro

Explorer
The thing is before level 18? You can't do anything else but be a bear. You can't talk to your party, you can't cast spells, you can't even use items. You can't bloody climb up a ladder. We're only level 4, and the Druid is nowhere near the same powerhouse our Wizard tends to be with Sleep - remember, not until level 6 do they even get an option to bypass magical resistance and immmunities; which would be irrelevant if they were Druids of the Land casting things like Flaming Sphere instead.

But let's look at that Barbarian, the Barbarian has two or three really awesome things that happen when she rages - one they can choose to gain advantage to strength attack rolls, two they gain resistance to damage, and three they get a +2 to all weapon based damage rolls, that's at level 2. They effectively have double the HP due to their rage, and ridiculous damage potential from constant advantage, large weapon dice, and auto bonus to damage rolls.

I really do think it evens out. It just sounds insane because the Druid is still a primary caster that turn into a brown bear. Thankfully, they can't cast and be a brown bear until somewhere like level 18. At which point I think all classes become patently ridiculous anyway.

I mean if you feel that way, sure; but I feel that my level 4 Dex Battlemaster Figher (I shoot things, my melee weapons are crossbows...) is a better front line fighter than our Moon Cirlce Druid being a brown bear or a tiger.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree with you, the barbarian is doing what the barbarian should. Though I would contest/add to some of the things you say. I'm not trying to be combative, I just want to show the way I see it. Please, please keep the conversation going! That is valuable insight up top.

The barbarian doesn't have double HP with its resistances while raging. It is resistant to common damage types it might encounter, but magic will definitely penetrate that (unless you go totem of the bear at level 3, which is cool, but you give up extra attacks). Also the barbarian does get advantage, but at a cost with Reckless attack. As a bear the druid ACTUALLY gets more than double HP and two attacks, again at a cost of lower AC, though I think it's less of a cost, depending on the AC values of the druid and barbarian. Neither can cast spells in these forms (not that it matters for the barbarian unless he or she multiclasses).

While not raging, what does the barbarian have? Certainly not nothing, but compare to the druid, who has a butt ton of spells. Also when the barbarian rages twice (which lasts only a minute) at level two he's done. He gets more uses fast at level three. The Wild Shape ability you can use twice (which can last an hour or longer) and recharges after a SHORT rest.

That's why I feel that way. When I've seen the druid in action at low and at high level, it's been unbalanced. I'm hearing from a lot of players they don't agree, which is good to hear, but I'm hearing from a lot of DMs that they do agree. I guess we need to see more druid action in play!
 

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