Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
“What!?!? That’s badwrongfun! Save vs Wisdom or spend the next 10 rounds angrily crafting a cutting response that will surely win the argument. Save at the end of each round.”
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D&D (2024) Wild shape on the core druid should be...
- Thread starter mellored
- Start date
“What!?!? That’s badwrongfun! Save vs Wisdom or spend the next 10 rounds angrily crafting a cutting response that will surely win the argument. Save at the end of each round.”
I think the concept should work the same as now: primarily utility with some weak combat use. They should provide several forms based on size and purpose. A tiny spy/scout could have no effective combat use. A small dex beast and a medium str beast would provide some melee options that would be about on par to using cantrips. At level 5 I'd add in a large str combat based beast, possibly with Multi-attack (I'd rather keep that for Moon Druid though).
This is a complete departure from the original design of the druid, but I honestly like the idea.
Incenjucar
Legend
Every druid should at least be able to have the basic combat functionality of a dog, falcon, donkey, or swan. They don't all need to become a t-rex.
Incenjucar
Legend
At a minimum, wildshape should be better than raw melee. A druid should need to at least use shillelagh to do more damage than their strongest wildshape form.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I really dislike the subclass idea. I see no need to limit the class in this way.
Instead, the basic forms should be available to every Druid, and going all in on the form (or the familiar pet) should be a matter of casting spells and spending slots.
Instead, the basic forms should be available to every Druid, and going all in on the form (or the familiar pet) should be a matter of casting spells and spending slots.
Chaosmancer
Legend
I think primary utility, with a bit of combat. A druid shouldn't feel like they became a bear but it was worthless because they didn't get anything, but if you want to be a melee adventurer then you should get subclasses that focus on making wildshape that.
Remathilis
Legend
Ideally, a druid should want to use an animal form for one of the following things.
Disguise/stealth: to scout/hide/spy/appear inconspicuous.
Movement: to travel over the land/sea faster or to avoid obstacles with flight or climbing
Senses: to gain heightened senses to see, hear, track, smell etc.
Natural attacks: gaining bites and claws, plus special attacks like grapples and poison.
Natural defense: to gain additional toughness though Natural AC or other defensive abilities.
The issue is if you make any one of these categories too good, then wild shape breaks. And each has the potential to break easily, especially when they are dependent on monster stat blocks that wildly fluctuate within the same CR. On the other hand, druids are full casters and a lot of those things are easily replaced with the right spell. You want to make it so that there is a good reason to become an animal rather than spam a cantrip or cast a spell.
Ideally, there should be some risk/reward to this choice. You are risking your other class features for the abilities an animal provides. The old system had too many variables (level of the druid vs CR accessible and animal form chosen) which is why it needed so much system mastery. The new system so far doesn't give enough rewards for what you have to give up. I think at some point, that will even out so that there are fewer choices but better balanced ones. It won't require knowing if the animals you can access are more or less powerful than the monsters you are facing and if spellcasting would be a better option.
Disguise/stealth: to scout/hide/spy/appear inconspicuous.
Movement: to travel over the land/sea faster or to avoid obstacles with flight or climbing
Senses: to gain heightened senses to see, hear, track, smell etc.
Natural attacks: gaining bites and claws, plus special attacks like grapples and poison.
Natural defense: to gain additional toughness though Natural AC or other defensive abilities.
The issue is if you make any one of these categories too good, then wild shape breaks. And each has the potential to break easily, especially when they are dependent on monster stat blocks that wildly fluctuate within the same CR. On the other hand, druids are full casters and a lot of those things are easily replaced with the right spell. You want to make it so that there is a good reason to become an animal rather than spam a cantrip or cast a spell.
Ideally, there should be some risk/reward to this choice. You are risking your other class features for the abilities an animal provides. The old system had too many variables (level of the druid vs CR accessible and animal form chosen) which is why it needed so much system mastery. The new system so far doesn't give enough rewards for what you have to give up. I think at some point, that will even out so that there are fewer choices but better balanced ones. It won't require knowing if the animals you can access are more or less powerful than the monsters you are facing and if spellcasting would be a better option.
Should be useful in combat. But it's also been an issue since forever. It's something I'd like, but not a sacred cow hill I'm willing to die on.
Bill Zebub
“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
How about...
*Maybe some or all of those features belong in templates. I dunno. Just made them up quickly.
- A bunch of templates (tiny infiltrator, shaggy tank, ferocious glass cannon, etc.). You pick ONE of these to start with.
- There are also a bunch of features that get added to forms (Flight, Climb, Aquatic, Burrow, Large Size...*) but only one feature at a time.
- At a bunch of specific levels you get to pick either a new template, or a feature.
- Maybe at some higher level you get to add two features to a form.
*Maybe some or all of those features belong in templates. I dunno. Just made them up quickly.
