Wildshape

[jgsugden]

Acyually you would get the Lowlight Vision...its a feature of the Type (Animal)

At least I believe thats the intent...

-Rugger
"I Wildshape!"

Just to follow this all up: Andy Collins (the head guy on the 3.5 PHB) had this to say on the subject:

I said:
"To summarize, it seems that:

Druids in animal form via wildshape gain the animal traits of low-light vision, proficiency with natural weapons, the need to eat, the need to sleep and the need to breathe. They also gain all extraordinary attacks of the specific animal form.

Druids in plant form via wildshape gain low-light vision, immunity to mind-affecting effects, immunity to poison, immunity to sleep effects, immunity to paralysis, immunity to polymorph, immunity to stunning, immunity to critical hits/sneak attacks, proficiency with natural weapons, the ability to avoid sleeping, the need to eat, and the need to breathe. They also gain all the extraordinary attacks of the specific plant creature.

Does that sound correct?"

Andy said:
"Looks right at a glance.
Andy Collins
Senior Designer
Wizards of the Coast Roleplaying R&D"

http://pub36.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm12.showMessage?topicID=214.topic

 

[Dimwhit]

Acyually you would get the Lowlight Vision...its a feature of the Type (Animal)

At least I believe thats the intent...

Are you sure about that in 3.5? I know in 3.0 that's the case, but 3.5 lists it as an EX ability, if memory serves.

As for what Andy Collins says, my understanding is that some of it contradicts the books. Is it in the errata? That's where I need to see it, unless I'm totally misreading things.

 

[Hardhead]

Personally, I allow Druids to get EX abilities that amimals have IRL. So they get Scent, but not Regeneration (if there was an animal published that had it, at least).

Also, while I think Druids *do* need their items, I hate the thought of bears running around wearing full plate armor, amulets, and belts. Therefore, I allow merged items that are worn my druids when wildshaped to still provide static bonuses.

 

[jgsugden]

As for what Andy Collins says, my understanding is that some of it contradicts the books. Is it in the errata? That's where I need to see it, unless I'm totally misreading things.

Nothing Andy has said has been directly contradicted by the books, though his interpretations do not seem obvious from the books. This issue in particular is hard to divine from the books. At first glance, the books seem to contradict him, but on closer inspection we see the following things take place (amongst a whole bunch of things):

1.) Polymorph grants the type and subtype. This grants the traits of the type and subtype.

2.) Then, extraordinary attacks are granted.

3.) Then, extraordinary qualities are specifically not granted. This has no effect on the traits already gained by adopting the type. Some abilities are listed redundantly under the traits and the extraordinary qualities section, but the failure to grant them a second time does nothing to diminsh their initial granting when the type was adopted.

His interpretation can be taken from the books. Considering he was responsible for the text, as long as his statements do not completely contradict the book, I'm going with what he has said. Hopefully some full errata on polymorph will be released soon.

 

[Dimwhit]

OK, I see now where low-light vision is stated at the beginning of the animal section as being an animal trait. Can't believe I missed that. So a Druid would get low-light. Happy to be corrected on that point.

But what about scent, blindsight, sprint, hold breath (crocodile), ink cloud, jet, keen scent, poison (vipers), and Amphibious (toad)? This, I believe, is the extent of the Special Qualities of all the animal that the Druid does not get (as per the appropriate spells).

Most, of not all, of these are completely natural, physical traits that I think Druids should get. I don't think Andy claims they do.

Is it unbalanced to give these traits to Druids? Supernatural and spell-like, I could understand. But these are only animals. Anyway, I guess that part of my grief with 3.5 Druids. Though I'll admit that getting low-light vision makes me a bit happier about it.

 

[jgsugden]

But what about scent, blindsight, sprint, hold breath (crocodile), ink cloud, jet, keen scent, poison (vipers), and Amphibious (toad)? This, I believe, is the extent of the Special Qualities of all the animal that the Druid does not get (as per the appropriate spells).

Most, of not all, of these are completely natural, physical traits that I think Druids should get. I don't think Andy claims they do.

Is it unbalanced to give these traits to Druids? Supernatural and spell-like, I could understand. But these are only animals. Anyway, I guess that part of my grief with 3.5 Druids. Though I'll admit that getting low-light vision makes me a bit happier about it.

The abilities you list are not granted (except poison from viper snakes - that is an extraordinary attack, not a quality). The druid is SOL. Andy has mentioned that feats granting these abilities are a wonderful idea. Considering that he is a designer, I'm assuming that he'll eventually include a feat that grants these qualities to a wildshaped druid in a future product.

Granting these abilities to a druid is not unbalancing. A few of them (scent and blindsight) are fairly powerful, but if you'd like to grant them, it won't destroy a campaign. It just isn't done in the official rules.