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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 6240413" data-attributes="member: 4348">This is informational, so hopefully it can be taken that way.Because it did things that 3e did not.  3e did great with Rolemaster and many who did not like the current versions of AD&D.  It also brought in some who were still roleplaying, but had fallen by the wayside with 2e.  It DID disenfranchise many.Things in 3e that broke that camels back...could be seen asNo real limits on multiclassing and making it very easy to do.  4e reintroduced restrictions, or more stringent restrictions on multiclassing to try to make it less easily abused.Classes as true archtypes.  In otherwords, along with making it so that characters were not a conglomeration of ten different classes and such, to make it so that the classes were stronger in and of themselves.  Hence a fighter was truly someone who had trained for years and could really fight!  as opposed to a multiclass character that had simply gotten to be a fighter over the past day because...well...just because.Characters and monsters were NOT the same types.  They were different and hence used different rules.  Aka...1e.  Monsters are not heroes, and heroes are not monsters.XP is not tenuously based upon some CR rating...but there are set XPs for challenges and foes.  Hence, even if it's a very small amount...you can still earn XP from killing that low level monster from 1st level...even if you are 19th level.  It may not count for much, but you can still do so.Less system mastery, and more even handed ness for players going in.These were all various grudges that many older players from AD&D seemed to have with 3e...and 4e tried to correct it to a degree.In truth, it DID get many of the older players that despised 3e...but at the same time...IMO...not enough to really counter how many it lost.  In addition I think Pathfinder ALSO corrected many of these perceived problems (emphasis on archetypes more than simply m/c...though it's still possible...they don't release 100 prestige classes and their cousings either, monsters have set XP in relation to CR, rewards for sticking to one class, etc.) and in some ways did it better so that it was more acceptable to the older players.The bigger problem is even if it attracted a few of the other players from older editions, it didn't attract anything close to what 3e did when it was released (In my Opinion, once again), and many of those it initially attracted, were disillusioned with OTHER differences that 4e had (such as the powers system...with encounters, dailies, etc).  Those 25 million missing players from AD&D and the BX/BECMI versions...getting them back...not happening.  Didn't happen with 3e...and definitely didn't happen with 4e (though I think they tried overly hard at times).To tell the truth...short of a miracle...I don't think they will get back that 25 million with 5e/Next either...but I could be pleasantly surprised.</blockquote>

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