Will anyone stand up to George Lucas?

[jdavis]

Many people, inside and outside the film industry (myself included), believe that one of the primary reasons the SW prequels have been *ahem* "lacking" is due to the fact that no one has had the testicular fortitude to stand up to Lucas and tell him which of his ideas just plain suck,

Get me a job with Lucas films and I'll tell him, he's getting old and out of shape and I bet I can take him (and I'm sure I can outrun him if not).

 

[Kai Lord]

When you say "most Star Wars fans", are you basing that on actual market research, or extremely vocal internet fanboys who are outraged over the scene where Greedo shoots first?

Star Wars fans. As in fans of the original "Star Wars" released in 1977. As in fans of the movie that is not currently on DVD, nor probably ever will be. I don't need "market research" to know that fans of movies who own DVD players like to own said movies on DVD. Its common sense.

But since you brought it up, I'd like to take a look at the official market research you conducted to determine that people criticize Lucas simply because its "fashionable." Lots of people have been criticizing George on this very forum. Find me *one* who called him the antichrist. Or believes that everything PJ touches turns to gold.

Although it was amusing to watch the reactions on internet forums over the whole TPM DVD issue. First, they were flaming GL because he decided to release it on VHS only. Then, when he decided to release the DVD sooner than he intitially stated he would, they flamed him again.

Yep, because he announced the DVD's that were already in production mere weeks after the VHS release. What annoyed people who wanted to own the best home version of TPM was that he sold them the videotapes knowing that the DVD's were right aroung the corner, *after* it had been made "official" that they were six years away.

Purchasing a video of a movie a full six years before the supposed release of the DVD isn't exactly compulsive behavior. Its buying the only version available, then being slapped in the face by having an announcement of a better version almost immediately after.

Does that mean that Peter Jackson has much more respect for fans of his movies? Yes it does. Does it make George Lucas an evil antichrist? Nope. Just a man with little respect for the medium of film or filmgoers, a man who once was a part of a great saga and is now a part of a mediocre saga.

Can he do what he wants with his money and his intellectual property? Of course. Am I going to gush over it when it doesn't deserve it? No way. Is it fun to scrutinize what worked and what went wrong with the saga, while comparing it to other fantasy films such as LOTR? You bet.

 

[barsoomcore]

Get me a job with Lucas films and I'll tell him, he's getting old and out of shape and I bet I can take him (and I'm sure I can outrun him if not).

I got $20 and a copy of "Al-Qadim: Ruined Kingdoms" says the fat film director takes out the cranky ENWorld poster. Any takers?

 

[Dark Jezter]

Star Wars fans. As in fans of the original "Star Wars" released in 1977. As in fans of the movie that is not currently on DVD, nor probably ever will be. I don't need "market research" to know that fans of movies who own DVD players like to own said movies on DVD. Its common sense.

So Star Wars isn't Star Wars because it's not the exact same version that appeared in theaters in 1977?

When that movie that isn't Star Wars is released on DVD later this year, I'll try to keep that in mind as I watch the lightsaber battle, jedi mind trick, and attack on the Death Star. Because the reasons that it isn't Star Wars is because Greedo shoots first and Jabba has a chat with Han.

But since you brought it up, I'd like to take a look at the official market research you conducted to determine that people criticize Lucas simply because its "fashionable." Lots of people have been criticizing George on this very forum. Find me *one* who called him the antichrist. Or believes that everything PJ touches turns to gold.

I don't need market research to observe the "love PJ, hate GL" attitute that has become prevelent both online and offline the last few years, as I wasn't relating it to the demand of a particular product. Granted, perhaps if I were trying to determine the potential for a documentry called "Why George Lucas is Old and Busted and Peter Jackson is the New Hotness" I would need the kind of market reasearch you are demanding I produce. But since there is no such documentry, any such market research would probably be hard to come by or unnessecary to undertake.

Yep, because he announced the DVD's that were already in production mere weeks after the VHS release. What annoyed people who wanted to own the best home version of TPM was that he sold them the videotapes knowing that the DVD's were right aroung the corner, *after* it had been made "official" that they were six years away.

Purchasing a video of a movie a full six years before the supposed release of the DVD isn't exactly compulsive behavior. Its buying the only version available, then being slapped in the face by having an announcement of a better version almost immediately after.

The Phantom Menace was released on VHS on April 4, 2000.

On June 19, 2001. It was officially announced that The Phantom Menace was coming out on DVD.

Your definition of "mere weeks" and "immediately after" is much different than that of most people I know.

 

[Kai Lord]

Did you even read my post, Kai Lord? I was presenting a hypothetical situation where George Lucas released Episode 3 on DVD followed by an Extended Edition a few months later.

Oh, and for the record, George did exactly that. TPM on VHS. Then, a few months later, TPM EE on DVD with an extra lap in the Pod Race sequence.

And even AOTC was touched up in a few places on the DVD, such as the additional fizzling of Jango's jetpack. So no original version of any of the five SW films exist on DVD. Films are no longer art to George, they're buggy programs to endlessly patch.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Oh, and for the record, George did exactly that. TPM on VHS. Then, a few months later, TPM EE on DVD with an extra lap in the Pod Race sequence.

And even AOTC was touched up in a few places on the DVD, such as the additional fizzling of Jango's jetpack. So no original version of any of the five SW films exist on DVD. Films are no longer art to George, they're buggy programs to endlessly patch.

By that logic, no original versions of Fellowship of the Ring exist because PJ edited out the car in the background of the scene where Frodo and Sam are walking through a cornfield.

And regarding the Phantom Menace DVD, check my last post where I listed the dates when TPM came out on VHS and when the official announcement was made regarding the DVD. It was well over a year.

 

[Kai Lord]

So Star Wars isn't Star Wars because it's not the exact same version that appeared in theaters in 1977?

No, Star Wars: Special Edition isn't Star Wars. I can take or leave the addition of the "Episode IV A New Hope" (the subtitle was added before it was rereleased a few years after '77) since its still the same movie, shot for shot.

SW:SE has different characters (Jabba and Boba Fett), characterizations (Han is no longer a quick on the draw survivalist, Greedo is no longer a threat of any kind), scenes, special effects, dialogue. Its a different movie.

When that movie that isn't Star Wars is released on DVD later this year, I'll try to keep that in mind as I watch the lightsaber battle, jedi mind trick, and attack on the Death Star.

It won't be hard to keep that in mind when a badly rendered giraffe creature walks across the front of the screen during the Jedi Mind trick and the new CGI X-Wings only call attention to the dated FX of the miniatures during the Death Star run.

I don't need market research to observe the "love PJ, hate GL" attitute that has become prevelent both online and offline the last few years, as I wasn't relating it to the demand of a particular product. Granted, perhaps if I were trying to determine the potential for a documentry called "Why George Lucas is Old and Busted and Peter Jackson is the New Hotness" I would need the kind of market reasearch you are demanding I produce. But since there is no such documentry, any such market research would probably be hard to come by or unnessecary to undertake.

*chuckles* You might not want to ask someone to provide "actual market research" to back up a counter point when you have none to begin with. I knew you didn't have any, but since you brought it up I couldn't resist.

The Phantom Menace was released on VHS on April 4, 2000.

On June 19, 2001. It was officially announced that The Phantom Menace was coming out on DVD.

Your definition of "mere weeks" and "immediately after" is much different than that of most people I know.

You know I thought the DVD was a 2000 release as well, so I misremembered the June 19th announcement as being weeks after the April release of the VHS. I stand corrected there, I definitely wouldn't classify the DVD coming out a year and a half after the VHS as being a huge "slap in the face" so I concede that point.

 

[Kai Lord]

By that logic, no original versions of Fellowship of the Ring exist because PJ edited out the car in the background of the scene where Frodo and Sam are walking through a cornfield.

Good. Every bit as forgiveable as the "Episode IV" change to Star Wars or the digital erasing of Harrison Ford's reflection on some protective glass in Raiders of the Lost Ark. I saw FOTR seven times in the theatre and never once noticed the car, so I couldn't care less. Now if the only version on DVD had Frodo stepping on Shelob's pudgy ass in Bree while the Witch King nodded at the camera that'd be a different story.

And regarding the Phantom Menace DVD, check my last post where I listed the dates when TPM came out on VHS and when the official announcement was made regarding the DVD. It was well over a year.

Yep. See my post above.

 

[Dark Jezter]

No, Star Wars: Special Edition isn't Star Wars. I can take or leave the addition of the "Episode IV A New Hope" (the subtitle was added before it was rereleased a few years after '77) since its still the same movie, shot for shot.

SW:SE has different characters (Jabba and Boba Fett), characterizations (Han is no longer a quick on the draw survivalist, Greedo is no longer a threat of any kind), scenes, special effects, dialogue. Its a different movie.

Ah well, that's where we'll have to disagree. I was satisfied for the most part with the Special Editions back in '97. Granted, I could have done without Greedo shooting first, but I wasn't going to let it ruin my entire opinion of the Special Editions and claim that George Lucas was raping my childhood.

*chuckles* You might not want to ask someone to provide "actual market research" to back up a counter point when you have none to begin with. I knew you didn't have any, but since you brought it up I couldn't resist.

I don't think it was such a bad call. You stated that most Star Wars fans would rather see the Original Editions rather than the Special Editions on DVD. I've never seen any evidence to support your claim (and before you ask, no, I haven't seen any evidence to say that most people would rather see the Special Editions on DVD), and was wondering if you could back it up in any way.

My point (that it's become fashionable to hate George Lucas) is supported by newspaper and magazine articles, comedies like South Park and the Simpsons, and late night talk show monologues over the past 5 years. The internet also supports my point, but the internet on a whole tends to be a very pessimistic place so I didn't list it among the others. When The Phantom Menace came out, intital reviews started saying things like "It was good, but not as good as I'd hoped it would be" and "It was kind of a letdown." Pretty soon, you couldn't attend any sizable gathering of Star Wars fans without hearing comments like "Lucas raped my childhood!" and "He's lost it. He should hand over the prequels to somebody else." Even non-genre fans can crack jokes about George Lucas and get laughs from other non-genre fans.

 

[buzzard]

My point (that it's become fashionable to hate George Lucas) is supported by newspaper and magazine articles, comedies like South Park and the Simpsons, and late night talk show monologues over the past 5 years. The internet also supports my point, but the internet on a whole tends to be a very pessimistic place so I didn't list it among the others. When The Phantom Menace came out, intital reviews started saying things like "It was good, but not as good as I'd hoped it would be" and "It was kind of a letdown." Pretty soon, you couldn't attend any sizable gathering of Star Wars fans without hearing comments like "Lucas raped my childhood!" and "He's lost it. He should hand over the prequels to somebody else." Even non-genre fans can crack jokes about George Lucas and get laughs from other non-genre fans.

I disliked both prequels before I even left the theatres (thus I will skip the next). My opinions are not dependent on current fashion. Yes, I suppose some people have jumped on said bandwagon, but if the movies weren't good, they weren't good. Irrationality on the part of some critics does not mitigate that.

buzzard