A Comment Here
You know, it doesn't matter if it's the orc barbarian with an attitude problem, or the nuclear weapon with the attitude problem.
They will both try to kill your character, if your character is approximately the same level as they are.
The primary difference, as I see it, is that as you go higher and higher in level, the more difficult it becomes to adjudicate the situation, for there are fewer rules to cover said situation.
For instance, there are no rules yet in 3E for 10th level magic, much less 11th level magic, much less 12th level magic.
And without rules, you must make up your own rules - which, as my DMing showed, is difficult, time-consuming, and only satisfies half of the players half of the time, if that.
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The concepts in the IR will work at 9th level and below limits (with a few 10th level concepts thrown in as specials.)
The United Commonwealth of Toril could be a world democracy, using 9th level and below technomancy (Uvenelei showed just how much you can do with 9th level magic and under, with some ingenuity.)
They could use technomantic spelljammers instead of super-advanced (read: game-breaking) starships.
The World Forum could exist.
Permanent Gates could exist, via clever use of 9th level magic.
Underground Greenhouses could feed the enormous population, with clever use of 9th level magic.
Skyscrapers could still soar 2 miles high, with clever use of 9th level and weaker magic.
The alterations to Toril's climate and geography can be chalked up to the massive energies used in the Great War of the 2nd IR - obviously, such energies are not available to the government and people of the UC today.
If the United Commonwealth can exist, and the integrity of the setting and concept be preserved, using weaker magic and technomagic (9th level and under, with isolated 10th level exceptions), then the Republic of Selune, and the Eternal Empire can exist.
The Scro Star League existed even before the IR, as the Scro Armada.
There is no reason the Scro could not have a great trading city on Luna (Toril's 2nd Moon), and have created a great Trading Empire.
The Demiplane of Hope was created by energies beyond 9th level - it exists. No need for magic beyond 9th level to keep it going - like Ravenloft, it exists and always will exist now.
The Kevellond League does not need 10th level magic to be the altruistic place it is, lead by the Angel, Hazen of Veluna.
The Union of the Worlds, that great colossal empire dominated by the religion of the Pantheon, does not need 10th level magic or higher to crow and reign supreme over the many, many nations it has conquered and - to use it's words - civilized.
The Alliance of the Crescent does not need Groundpounders to be an enlightened, noble alliance, and the Sky-Sea League could do perfectly well with it's Sky Ships and Flying Citadels.
To be honest - since I was very impressed by Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones - if you wish to up the ante on the IR Setting, why not take it towards a more Star Wars type feel?
There is magic there (the Force), and there could certainly be other magic.
There are certainly many different races, and many different (and alien) world settings.
There is most certainly high technology (wasn't the attaining of high technology one of the prime goals of the IR?)
I'd rather go that route, than try to imagine a scenario - a setting - based on everyone having 12th level magic.
Magic in which you can rival the Gods in power with each spell you cast.
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There IS an alternate approach to 12th level magic, folks, if you really wish to keep it.
Assume that when you go upward, in power, from 9th level, the upward progression is linear.
Thus, for example, Prismatic Sphere is a 9th level spell.
Prismatic Sphere will sure do a lot of damage - to the idiot who tries to go through said Sphere.
Prismatic Sphere is a rather clumsy defensive spell - the mage cannot cast spells out of it easily (sticking one's arm out to throw a spell is a good way to lose said arm.)
Look at Jaran's Prismatic Blade.
It is a spell from Dragon Magazine.
Lasting 1 round per level, it inflicts all the 7 layers of prismatic damage with each swing.
Considering what Haste and other such spells allow for, this makes Jaran's Prismatic Blade a rather overwhelming attack spell (nothing like being able to do ... what? ... 20 + 40 + 80 + death + disintegration + turned to stone + sent to another plane with each and every hit.)
This is no 9th level spell!
Nor is it a 10th level spell, either.
This is more like an 11th level spell, if one goes up on a linear basis!
After all, Meteor Swarm does 40 to 160 points of damage, one time - over an area of effect (and we all know it'll do a great job of killing the little guys, and the big guys will survive it, in all likelihood, considering the CR versus an archmage.)
Jaran's Prismatic Blade, on the other hand, does 140 points plus death or 20 points, plus disintegration + turned to stone + sent to another plane.
Now, just cast said spell twice (one prismatic sword per hand), and then Haste the mage, and then Dual-Mind the mage, and you have ... well, you have a mess, is what you have (I leave it to you to figure out how many attacks per round that is ...)
Ok then, what about Prismatic Armor?
Imagine it. A suit of Prismatic Armor. It doesn't harm the mage or his possessions, and it doesn't glow in that way that blinds his allies.
But it stops all incoming attacks as per a Prismatic Sphere, while it stops NOTHING from going out.
Better hope the opponent has Anti-Magic Shell (50% chance of success) or a Mordenkainen's Disjunction.
Most monsters don't have such spells handy.
And who is to say Anti-Magic Shell or Mordenkainen's Disjunction, which would work on a 9th level spell, would even work on a spell of higher than 9th level?
Crispy, fried, monsters, is what you have.
Or, if it is the DRAGON who threw Prismatic Armor on itself, you have crispy, fried adventurers.
That is no 9th level spell, or 10th, or 11th.
That's more like 13th, if you go up on a linear basis.
How about Prismatic Blasts? Lasts one round per level, and allows you to throw one to four Prismatic Sprays (range is line of sight!) per round.
Heh. Now, you're the regular particle cannon artillery piece, especially if you have up Prismatic Armor.
Again, this is no 9th level spell.
9th level spells have a damage limit far less than a spell like this!
This is more like 13th level also.
Or, how about Prismatic Cannonade?
Prismatic Multi-Shields?
Primatic Shield, City-Sized?
All higher than 9th level.
And all of them, still useless against a single nuclear weapon (or, for that matter, against a clever kender mage / thief of only moderate level.)
Certainly, useless against a starship sitting in orbit, particle cannons pointed down at the mage!
- - -
If you want my advice, folks ... if .... if! ... (and it is always if) ...
Keep all of the IR Concepts.
Especially Melkor and the Shade, for the evil in the human heart is always there, and no victory - no matter how total it seems or how final it appears - will eliminate that evil as long as there are humans around, or humankind.
Keep the United Commonwealth, and get someone to talk Lannon and Reprisal and Forrester into espousing further on it.
Keep the Kevellond League, Alliance of the Rising Sun, Alliance of the Crescent, Empire of Iuz, Kingdom of Ulek, Lortmil Technomancy, Emerald Order, Kevellond League, Coalition of Light and Shade, Ishtarland (Kalanyr) Elven-Drow-Lythari Alliance, Delrunian Alliance, League of the Warlords, Sky-Sea League, Union of the Worlds, Acererak the Archlich, Pomarj, Thillronian Alliance, Solistarim, Penumbral Hub, Chorazin, the Cube City, the Mana Fortress, the Eternal Union, Eternal Empire, AnaKeris, Aquaria, Polaris, Fireland, Telchuria, Nations of the Chosen of Mystra, Scro Star League, Republic of Selune, Free Peoples of Luna (Oerth), Free Peoples of Celune (Oerth), and all the other things you created in the IR.
They are worth all the time and trouble.
They are truly yours.
They are worth preserving.
They are worth putting down in that Atlas Mr. Draco is trying to create.
All you have to do is tone the magical power level down a bit, and you have a believable scenario.
Obviously, 12th level magic as I portrayed it, with mages running around with the power of Gods, each and every one, is not reasonable or believable.
Take 12th and 11th level magic out of the scenario, unless you are using a linear system like the one I described (in which case, you'd need a spell of about 100th level to duplicate 12th level magic ala the IR.)
Treat 10th level magic as special, rare, and the driving force behind the great creations - the Mana Fortress and Cube City, the Cydians, the Weaveform of the Elves, the Wormform of the Orcs, the Dead/Alive Power of the Baklunish, and others, for instance.
Stay within the rules everyone understands.
Why go beyond the rules?
Or use the rules from Star Wars, or another gaming system, to cover the situation.
I guess what I am saying is:
You don't have to let the IR concepts die because 11th and 12th level magic is in the scenario, and that magic is making it unbelievable (or, in Forrester's words, silly), or impossible for players to connect with.
Just delete the magic, tone down the science as you want to, and keep the core concepts.
They don't need superscience or magic to survive.
You created them, and you made them shine, made them live, and they can stand by themselves.
I mean, in the end, it was YOUR IR.
Those creations, were yours.
Those alliances, dreams, conceptions, plans, all of it, were yours.
And they will continue, if you let them, and want them to.
In my opinion, your conceptions deserve to continue. Let the 3rd IR pass away - but save the works of your imagination.
Edena_of_Neith
