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D&D 4E Will errata ever be incorporated in 4E books?

Nebten

First Post
All of the silver foil special edition books did have the errata in them up until that time. Sadly, there has been more errata since then. This is why I curse them for putting out the "special edition" so closely to the edition launch. Wait a year or 2, then I might actually consider buying them (like I did with the 3.5 books).
 

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jdrakeh

Adventurer
All of the silver foil special edition books did have the errata in them up until that time. Sadly, there has been more errata since then. This is why I curse them for putting out the "special edition" so closely to the edition launch. Wait a year or 2, then I might actually consider buying them (like I did with the 3.5 books).

Yeah, I very nearly bought the special edition books, but decided to hold off for a few months to see if any more errata would be issued. When it was, I decided that I'd just pick up the first revised printing of the rule books. . . but they haven't had a first revision yet, to the best of my knowledge. :(

It drives me a little bit batty because I know that much smaller companies seem to issue revised printings of their games (incorporating errata) in a much more timely fashion than the industry leader does. It may be that the smaller companies have less volume to deal with, so it's an easier fix, but that doesn't make the pill any easier for me to swallow. I want my corrected printings now, dangit! :)
 

Flipguarder

First Post
jdrakeh. When it comes to the 4e forum, where we are, those are the two options. If I like cheese my options don't arbitrarily become: play 4e, don't play 4e, or eat cheese. There is no reason to express that you play other games instead, and how awesome they are because they don't have the problem that dissuades you from playing 4e.

I feel its like me going into a republican political forum, and talking about how awesome democrats are. Republican political forums are not FOR me. They are for political-minded republicans.

Admin here again. It's not your job to moderate, and it's definitely not your job to tell people where they can or can't post. Jdrakeh is disagreeing with you, not threadcrapping, and there's a world of difference. ~ PCat
 
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i agree completely with jdrakeh here.

back in 3.x they actually printed errata.

the secind printing of 3.0 had them and 3.5 had them when i finally gave up on waiting...
half a month later there were updated printings in the comic shop... so i won´t buy them this time... really...

there is just no reason to buy an outdated book... and by the number of errata i consider it outdated... nothing to do with flaming... just an opinion and a reasonable one.

I am gladly paying my DDI and i am gladly buying phb 3... but not MM1
 

jdrakeh. When it comes to the 4e forum, where we are, those are the two options. If I like cheese my options don't arbitrarily become: play 4e, don't play 4e, or eat cheese. There is no reason to express that you play other games instead, and how awesome they are because they don't have the problem that dissuades you from playing 4e.

I feel its like me going into a republican political forum, and talking about how awesome democrats are. Republican political forums are not FOR me. They are for political-minded republicans.
And it is a reasonable thing to look into a thread about errata in printed books and voice your opinion. Maybe some D&D designer reads it and say: hey, maybe there are more people who would buy our product if we at least send the updated pdfs to our printers. They have done so. Those old updates would be sufficient IMHO.
 

jdrakeh

Adventurer
jdrakeh. When it comes to the 4e forum, where we are, those are the two options.

See? This is a problem. Apparently you think that you get to tell me what I can and cannot do. News flash: You don't. :erm:

There is no reason to express that you play other games instead, and how awesome they are because they don't have the problem that dissuades you from playing 4e.

Except that I was incorrectly told in a rather matter-of-fact manner that I had only two options available to me — buy the uncorrected 4e books or not game at all. The only reason I mentioned playing other games was because it is a perfectly reasonable alternative (and, more to the point, because it's the alternative I chose).

If you go back to my very first post in this thread, you'll note that I say the uncorrected books have been keeping me out of 4e so far. I have every intention of buying into it when I know that the books include errata. But I play other games, too. And if it's between playing other games and not gaming at all? Well, I'd be a moron to turn down other games.

Now, you may not want to play other games and spend your money on uncorrected books, fine; but you're in no position to tell me what I can and cannot do. Also, again, I haven't said anything about the awesomeness of the other games I play. I also haven't said that 4e is a bad game. So, again, you're still putting words in my mouth. Think you could cut that out?
 
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Flipguarder

First Post
Yes I can.

But you should understand, that while you can do whatever you want, on the issue of 4e you can either play it or not play it. Playing something else is a completely different situation.

I can buy a ford, or not buy a ford. Whether or not I buy a toyota has no bering on whether or not I buy a ford.
 

jdrakeh

Adventurer
Yes I can.

I think that you've grossly misjudged your own importance. Sit on it and spin.

And this? This is the wrong response. When you see a problem, report it and then don't rise to the bait. Doing otherwise drags the thread downwards. ~ PCat
 
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It did come across sounding a bit like a dis on 4e you have to admit. Its true that there was no "these other games are better" and you probably didn't mean it that way, but it isn't hard to see how someone could read that into it pretty easily. Anyway, its neither here nor there. We obviously like our 4e ;)

I don't think its really a very valid comparison either to look at errata rates for other games and conclude that 4e has a high number of "errors". Certainly a few of the errata for 4e were corrections of outright errors, but not many. Most of those errors simply would have been passed over and never corrected in most other game products. Honestly the vast majority of companies simply never release errata at all. TSR certainly didn't. In the entire history of 1e and 2e combined there might have been 10 errata issued that I know of and there were plenty of errors. Most of them you just never noticed because it was hard to tell they WERE errors.

The VAST majority of 4e "errata" are really rules updates. To the best of my knowledge 4e is vastly better supported in that sense than any RPG that has ever come before it. 3.x did move in that direction in its day, but remember they had a lot less of an option to do that kind of thing online. Times change and its nice that WotC has the resources to go with the times and be able to issue a constant stream of updates.

I can see feeling like printed books get out of date fast but that is a limitation of the medium. Dead tree format is just obsolescent. We aren't at the point yet where it can be abandoned by a long shot, but that day is coming. Its good that people can play using the newer electronic formats instead, though honestly I don't think I could manage without having printed books around some of the time. Its still awfully convenient to have them.
 

Ferghis

First Post
See? This is a problem. Apparently you think that you get to tell me what I can and cannot do. News flash: You don't. :erm:

[...] So, again, you're still putting words in my mouth. Think you could cut that out?
Yes I can.

But you should understand, that while you can do whatever you want, [...]
I think that you've grossly misjudged your own importance. Sit on it and spin.
I hope I'm not out of place here, but my reading of the posts was that Flipguarder, in the quoted post above, was referring to the final portion of the jdrakeh's post I've first quoted. While I get the impression from the later post of jdrakeh's that I quoted that s/he takes Flipguarder to rebut the first part of the first quote.

In other words, I think there's a misunderstanding here. Flipguarder is trying to tone it down, but jdrakeh has taken it the wrong way. Now please continue.
 


Doctor Proctor

First Post
See? This is a problem. Apparently you think that you get to tell me what I can and cannot do. News flash: You don't. :erm:

I think the issue here is that he's having a problem with you posting this in the 4e rules forum. Saying "I don't like the fact that they haven't printed updated books, and therefore I play using other systems" has nothing to do with discussing rules. It's something that belongs in the General RPG Discussion forum.

Heck, reading the description of the 4e Rules forum here, this whole topic should probably be over in General RPG discussion.

"Ask questions about 4th-Edition rules and the like in here. General discussion about 4E or any other game belongs in General RPG Discussion, above."
 

Mistwell

Legend
I think it's perfectly reasonable to want to wait for the errata to get incorporated into a new printing of the books, and they should have done that several times by now as new printings take place.

In fact, there are probably a lot of people who would buy new books, in addition to the ones they already have, just for the convenience of having the errata. I suspect there are DMs who would do that, and give their non-errata'ed book to one of their players who never got around to buying them.

It's a lost opportunity, and a relatively inexpensive means of making a decent amount of money.

And talking about this issue in this sub-forum seems fine to me. It fits better in a 4e rules forum than it does in an RPG general forum.
 

Turtlejay

First Post
Yeah. . .I thought that too, since errata is essentially rules revisions. I see the point where you don't want to piss off the folks who already bought your books. It doesn't mean I don't want errata'd books though. I still haven't bought a ton of the books, and get further behind every month. It would be nice to be able to buy books that were accurate as soon as I got them, instead of having to go home and check the errata document first.

That said, I'm certainly not going to miss out on a game I think is fun because a few plusses are misplaced or some conjugations are breaking things or other minor stuff. The fun is not at all connected to the 100% adherence to rules.

Jay
 

Rel

Liquid Awesome
My warning earlier was aimed at the sniping people were doing at one another.

There is nothing wrong with the topic of 4e rules errata being discussed in the 4e rules forum. There is also nothing wrong with stating the opinion that one would rather play other games until the existing errata is incorporated into the books. That is NOT 4e bashing or edition warring. It's just a personal preference.

What's isn't ok is telling people what their posting options are. If you think a post is problematic then report it.

The same goes for if you have a problem with somebody trying to "mini-mod" you. Report the post! Don't tell them to "sit on it and spin". I almost banned jdrakeh for not coming up with a better insult if he's going to cross that line.

Now continue to knock it the hell off with any insults and snide mini-modding and discuss the issue or find entertainment elsewhere. Please.
 

Enkhidu

Explorer
I think it's perfectly reasonable to want to wait for the errata to get incorporated into a new printing of the books, and they should have done that several times by now as new printings take place.

In fact, there are probably a lot of people who would buy new books, in addition to the ones they already have, just for the convenience of having the errata. I suspect there are DMs who would do that, and give their non-errata'ed book to one of their players who never got around to buying them.

It's a lost opportunity, and a relatively inexpensive means of making a decent amount of money.

And talking about this issue in this sub-forum seems fine to me. It fits better in a 4e rules forum than it does in an RPG general forum.

Once WotC gets over their PDF fears, I can see them moving to a print-on-demand service for DDI subscribers. Giving people the ability to purchase printed rules snapshots - not just updated for errata but also for additional content - would be a nice little moneymaker. Something similar might actually get me to purchase a subscription, even though I don't currently play 4e.
 


Paul_Klein

First Post
It not that WotC won't or hasn't done this before. The 2nd printing of Star Wars Saga which came out in the last year or so, had all the errata right in the text.

I bought a new copy.

Regarding the PH1 and PH2 packs... no errata in either. I also got a 1st printing PH1 and a 4th printing PH2.
 

jdrakeh

Adventurer
It not that WotC won't or hasn't done this before. The 2nd printing of Star Wars Saga which came out in the last year or so, had all the errata right in the text.

I know, that's why it's so weird. They incorporated errata in subsequent printings of the 3.0 and 3.5 core books, as well. And, in fairness, they may still do it for 4e. . . but they sure are taking their time. My guess is that the DDI is a contributing factor to the delay (or choice not to incorporate, if that's the case), because it means that most people can easily get access to the errata.

Now, I have a laptop, and I could theoretically subscribe to the DDI — but I prefer paper books (both because I get migraines from staring at the PC screen too long, and because I'm something of a bibliophile). And I don't particularly want to spend money on books that aren't complete or corrected. And what about people who don't have access to the DDI at all (and who also don't want to pay for uncorrected books)?

Like Mistwell said, this really seems like a missed opportunity for WotC.
 

mkill

Adventurer
Let's all calm down...

WotC will update the books at some point (unless they want to burn in nerdrage on next GenCon). They are currently still ironing out a few kinks in the system, and I don't blame them if they wait with the revised edition until they feel the system is perfect. I'm sure we'll see another batch of errata/updates with the essentials and the rules compendium coming up.

Besides, there is an easy way to always have up-to-date monster stats. It's called DDI and printer. Several times, my players ran off in an unexpected direction and I had to come up with an encounter on the spot. No problem: Pick a few minis, look up the stats in DDI, print them out. Prep time: 2-5 minutes.

You can even do some quick and dirty customizations on the paper, like changing the name, or scaling down a solo to an elite, or bumping a monster up or down a few levels, or changing the energy type on an attack. You can even jot down hp and status effects.

And it's much much easier to handle encounters with different types of monster from different pages in one encounter when you have them on single sheets. Just put them in order of initiative.

In fact, printing out monster stats is now my main session preparation (I improvise most of the other stuff and usually don't have more than a few mental images prepared.)
 

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