Will there ever be new editions of the major systems?

[TwoSix]

It's the second thing, where everyone just goes along with WotC's advertising as if that's the way it's supposed to be for the whole hobby because they have the most money, that I see as a problem.

If your concern is that those with money and power get to make the rules, you've got a long, difficult road ahead of you.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If your concern is that those with money and power get to make the rules, you've got a long, difficult road ahead of you.

Don't I know it. The unfairness of money letting people control the narrative extends far beyond what we're allowed to talk about here.

 

[FrogReaver]

I believe if it wasn’t for the stranger things effect on D&D sales we would already have a 6e.

But stranger things juiced sales so much it didn’t just delay the long tail effect in sales in made sales bigger than ever, pretty much resetting this version. Hence 2024.

I think you think stranger things is much bigger than it is.

 

[Morrus]

A brand owner is always going to be able to name a brand whatever they want. Who else gets a say? You may wish they used a different name, but you are not paying for the advertising and so have very little power to overturn the branding.

There are many, many examples in the world where things are referred to in ways not chosen by the brand owner.

Plus, the question "is it a new edition?" goes much further than simple branding. Without delving into whether it is or not (as that's a complete derail), and just sticking to the asserted principle that such definitional terminology is under the control of brand owners, Ford might make a new four wheeled motorised passenger vehicle and call it a tricycle, but nobody is obliged to accept that new definition of a tricycle--and likely nobody would.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

It's the second thing, where everyone just goes along with WotC's advertising as if that's the way it's supposed to be for the whole hobby because they have the most money, that I see as a problem.

It is not just money it is ownership. Why would the owner not be entitled to call a thing whatever they want? Why do you get a say? Ok, occasionally a brand owner looses control of a brand , somewhat, "kleenex", "xerox" and the like but it is very rare and what specifically is wrong with WoTC's branding?

 

[Cergorach]

Honestly, I think that's a silly phrase. People don't make games thinking they're going to "kill" D&D. That's not the "dream" they have set their hopes on. They make games hoping they can carve out a niche and find an audience. This whole "D&D killer" nonsense is foisted upon them.

I doubt that many RPG writers/designers have actually said that out loud, but certainly their fanbase has, and that's what I was trying to say.

Of the three games you mentioned Daggerheart is to one that could still be around in 10 years.

Possibly, but what I've gotten from quite a few people that where extremely enthusiastic about Daggerheart is that way more then I expected didn't enjoy it. None of the Daggerheart related crowdfunding projects has breached the $1 million mark, not by a longshot. The Dungeons of Drakkenheim version for Daggerheart only did ~$460k, which is only 40% of what they did with the original campaign for D&D 5e. Their other three Drakkenheim (5e) campaigns ended all in the $1+ million range. Even the official cards KS by Darrington Press fell short of $400k. Something like Draw Steel did $4.6 million during the KS, and their follow up KS already at $1.5+ million. But it is difficult to say much about the Daggerheart sales. Nor do current sales say anything about the future. The French translation of Daggerheart raised ~€225k, which isn't much imho.

Darrington Press also announced in 2023 'Illuminated Worlds', they used that for Candela Obscura, which they released two years ago, that was the only product for that from Darington Press (Beadle and Grimm did something under license, which is OOP). That webseries has also been on hold for a year and a half.

After almost four years only the Tal’Dorei Campaign Setting Reborn for 5e came out (besides the previous official D&D stuff: Explorer’s Guide to Wildemount in 2020). These products tie in into their webseries, when those end or go on hiatus, interest and support seem to die right along with that. And their current 4th CR season seems to be not set in Tal’Dorei (but in Aramán, a new world) and they're using D&D 5e (2024). As far as I can tell (consulting wikipedia) they've done three one-shots using the Daggerheart system. So unless that changes drastically, I suspect that the hype will taper off quickly. In 10 years some people will play it, pretty sure about that, but there are still folks that play D&D 1e as well...

 

[Morrus]

I doubt that many RPG writers/designers have actually said that out loud, but certainly their fanbase has, and that's what I was trying to say.

Thus “foisted upon them”. It’s a ridiculous thing to say. And also really not necessary to run a successful business any more than the popular local restaurant in town has to outsell McDonalds worldwide to be successful. Any small business owner with an ounce of sense knows this.

 

[Morrus]

It is not just money it is ownership. Why would the owner not be entitled to call a thing whatever they want? Why do you get a say?

Everybody gets a say in how they speak.

 

[The Soloist]

I doubt that many RPG writers/designers have actually said that out loud, but certainly their fanbase has, and that's what I was trying to say.


Possibly, but what I've gotten from quite a few people that where extremely enthusiastic about Daggerheart is that way more then I expected didn't enjoy it. None of the Daggerheart related crowdfunding projects has breached the $1 million mark, not by a longshot. The Dungeons of Drakkenheim version for Daggerheart only did ~$460k, which is only 40% of what they did with the original campaign for D&D 5e. Their other three Drakkenheim (5e) campaigns ended all in the $1+ million range. Even the official cards KS by Darrington Press fell short of $400k. Something like Draw Steel did $4.6 million during the KS, and their follow up KS already at $1.5+ million. But it is difficult to say much about the Daggerheart sales. Nor do current sales say anything about the future. The French translation of Daggerheart raised ~€225k, which isn't much imho.

Darrington Press also announced in 2023 'Illuminated Worlds', they used that for Candela Obscura, which they released two years ago, that was the only product for that from Darington Press (Beadle and Grimm did something under license, which is OOP). That webseries has also been on hold for a year and a half.

After almost four years only the Tal’Dorei Campaign Setting Reborn for 5e came out (besides the previous official D&D stuff: Explorer’s Guide to Wildemount in 2020). These products tie in into their webseries, when those end or go on hiatus, interest and support seem to die right along with that. And their current 4th CR season seems to be not set in Tal’Dorei (but in Aramán, a new world) and they're using D&D 5e (2024). As far as I can tell (consulting wikipedia) they've done three one-shots using the Daggerheart system. So unless that changes drastically, I suspect that the hype will taper off quickly. In 10 years some people will play it, pretty sure about that, but there are still folks that play D&D 1e as well...

An anecdotal number of your friends didn't like DH. Sucks for them but Darrington has done reprints of the DH books. Demand is there.

I'm not surprised DH KSs did less than D&D KSs of the same product. It's expected. Doesn't mean DH is not doing well.

Only time will tell. Let's see in a year from now what happened.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Everybody gets a say in how they speak.

Everybody speaking how they like is one thing and I am not denying anybody that, but the owner of a thing gets to name what the thing is called? Do they not?