Wish (again)

[Li Shenron]

Do you ALWAYS have to spend at least 5000 Xp to cast Wish?

In my print of PHB it says: "When a Wish duplicates a spell that has an Xp cost, you must pay 5000 Xp or that cost, whichever is more". In XP field: "5000 Xp or more (see above)".

1. How many Xp does it cost to duplicate a spell with NO Xp cost?

2. How many Xp does it cost to grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score?

3. How many Xp does it cost to create a valuable item (<15000gp)?

4. How many Xp does it cost to undo harmful effects from another spell?

5. How many Xp does it cost to "transport travellers"?

6. How many Xp does it cost to "undo misfortune"?

If it's always at least 5000 Xp, it seems to me A LOT for numbers 1., 4. and 5. (and maybe even 6. given that other similar special abilities, such as Luck Domain granted power (at 1st level!) costs nothing).

OTOH, it can't be free for numbers 2. and 3., or it'll soon get out of control.

Any official ruling/faq somewhere?

 

[Dr_Rictus]

The spell means what it says. It costs at least 5000 XP, and sometimes more.

 

[kreynolds]

<-- throws in his "What Dr_Rictus said" hat -->

 

[Tiberius]

Do you ALWAYS have to spend at least 5000 Xp to cast Wish?

1. How many Xp does it cost to duplicate a spell with NO Xp cost?

2. How many Xp does it cost to grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score?

3. How many Xp does it cost to create a valuable item (<15000gp)?

4. How many Xp does it cost to undo harmful effects from another spell?

5. How many Xp does it cost to "transport travellers"?

6. How many Xp does it cost to "undo misfortune"?

1. 5,000 XP
2. 5,000 XP
3. 5,000 XP
4. 5,000 XP
5. 5,000 XP
6. 5,000 XP

Whenever you use it, you're paying the 5,000 XP to reweave the fabric of the plane and/or one or more of the creatures therein to your liking. The spell isn't trying to fool you. I think wish casters have it easy these days. It's a lot easier to regain 5,000 XP than it is the 5 years it used to cost.

-Tiberius

 

[Li Shenron]

Does anybody have any idea why when a Wizard/Sorcerer uses Wish to duplicate a Cleric spell he must spend 5000Xp, and when a Cleric uses Miracle to duplicate a Wizard/Sorcerer spell he spends 0Xp?

And the Cleric can duplicate spells up to 7th level instead of 6th?

 

[kreynolds]

Does anybody have any idea why when a Wizard/Sorcerer uses Wish to duplicate a Cleric spell he must spend 5000Xp, and when a Cleric uses Miracle to duplicate a Wizard/Sorcerer spell he spends 0Xp?

And the Cleric can duplicate spells up to 7th level instead of 6th?

For the same reason that the divine version of True Seeing reveals alignments but the arcane version doesn't...

Arcane magic got the SHAFT!!!

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't have yet PCs who cast those spells, but my Cleric is looking forward to reach level 17, so she will have access to ALL spell lists of any other character, except Wiz/Sor levels 8th and 9th (and Druid, for the different ones).

It won't cost a thing, and she won't have to prepare it in advance (she'll prepare Miracle, but can choose on the fly which spell to duplicate).

Of course, it's 2 level higher at least. But wouldn't you like to have a feat that allows you to cast spontaneously ANY of your spell below 8th or anyone else's spells below 7th, for such a small metamagic cost?

 

[Epametheus]

Yeah, Miracle is pretty much completely superior to Wish.

As long as your request would be okay with your diety (or the DM forgets that stipulation, and that he gets to decide what your Miracle actually does), casting Miracle generally gets the desired results, or at the very least, good results.

Casting Wish, on the other hand, generally amounts to telling your DM "I like pain, so beat me with a bat that has rusty heated nails in it." IMO, DMs are encouraged to punish players who try use Wish for anything other the listed "safe" uses.

Unfortunately, the DM isn't going to shaft himself when it comes to Wishes, so the spell works perfectly fine for his NPCs.

Considering the XP cost, Wish is something that pretty much should only be busted out when you need to take emergency measures. Except, of course, that if you actually use a Wish to try to do something really worth 5000 XP, the DM will probably make things even worse for you...

 

[James McMurray]

Casting Wish, on the other hand, generally amounts to telling your DM "I like pain, so beat me with a bat that has rusty heated nails in it." IMO, DMs are encouraged to punish players who try use Wish for anything other the listed "safe" uses.

Pardon me while I go into rant mode...

Only a piece of crap DM would twist every wish that didn't copy a spell. Wishes whould only be twisted when they come from sources who would want to twist them: evil beings forced into servitude, cursed items, etc.

When a wish is something being cast by a wizard who is giving up 5000XP to cast it, the DM should do his best to ensure a fair and reasonably interpretation of the wish.

Of course if a player tries to abuse the power of the spell they should be given what they want in a way they don't want to get it.

I have met tons of players and nearly all of them have been afraid to use an item with wish on it. One of the only two times my players have ever used a wish was from a cursed item. They knew the item to be cursed, and still used its wish. Of course the wish was twisted and the paladin ended up with a Shield that casts command 3 / day, but the command affects the wielder.

The second time they used a wish it was from an Efreet. The Efreet had been captured by a demi-lich and was being forced to grant a wish to whoever freed it. The demi-lich knew that efreets love to punish those who make wishes through them, but the player chose to wish for an item capable of smiting the demi-lich. The efreet figured he was better off getting revenge on his true captor, and granted the wish without a hitch. Of course, since a +5 item is out of reach of a Wish, the character was granted a mace that was designed to explode when it hit the demi-lich. It dealt a good amount of damage and was then destroyed.

In closing: only a crappy DM feels it is his duty to screw the players over with every wish they make.

 

[Oni]

I would like to see a page or two in a WotC book that goes into real detail what you can and cannot do with a wish, and really helps a person understand the dividing line between reasonable and unreasonable, with lots and lots of examples. Wish is such a complex spell, it really needs an in depth explanation.

[edit: and examples on where you might draw the line in different campaign styles, lower or higher magic et c. ]