D&D 5E Wish & Simulacrum

[DM-Rocco]

Maybe, but this edition isn't previous editions. And comparing such things as high level spell slots is a ... red herring. Besides, this example (high level spell slots) is actually at the core of one of the biggest complaints with previous editions, that spellcasters out power martials at high levels.

Well, I suppose you could go back to 4th edition where everyone outpowered Wizards

That's the trade-off, spellcasters don't have a lot going for themselves in earlier levels. However, I greatly disagree that spellcasters out power martials at higher levels. In 5th edition, martials can consistently out damage spell casters each round and with the complete lack of reasonable higher level spell slots spellcasters have to be very careful with the spells they do have, more so than any other edition.

 

[Stoutstien]

Never had a player try to really abuse it.
Had a NPC wizard do it and it drove the party crazy once lol.

 

[Oofta]

I rule that for purposes of the spell a simulacrum is not a beast or humanoid, it's an illusory duplicate. So it can't replicate itself.

I also rule you can't have more than one simulacrum for any individual creature, although that's probably a house rule. It does stop the cabal of wizards from duplicating their most powerful caster multiple times or other exploits.

Edit: never mind. I blame my attempt to cut back on caffeine and multi-tasking.

Yes, this would work in my campaign. It's a cheesy loophole, but it would work until I simply ban the Simulacrum spell as being too broken.

 

[Dausuul]

I rule that for purposes of the spell a simulacrum is not a beast or humanoid, it's an illusory duplicate. So it can't replicate itself.

I also rule you can't have more than one simulacrum for any individual creature, although that's probably a house rule. It does stop the cabal of wizards from duplicating their most powerful caster multiple times or other exploits.

That isn't the exploit under discussion. This is a different way to exploit simulacrum and wish.

Have I mentioned that simulacrum is a grotesque mockery which should never have been printed and is banned pre-emptively in all my campaigns?

 

[Oofta]

That isn't the exploit under discussion. This is a different way to exploit simulacrum and wish.

Have I mentioned that simulacrum is a grotesque mockery which should never have been printed and is banned pre-emptively in all my campaigns?

D'oh!

 

[Fanaelialae]

I allow a simulacrum to cast wish, but the simulacrum isn't a real person so the consequences are applied to the simulacrum's creator. As a result of the whole "not a person" thing, a simulacrum also can't have its own simulacrum. IMO, these are perfectly reasonable limits.

 

[dave2008]

Personally I hate the whole rule on the 33% chance of never casting Wish again. It's a 9th level spell, it should be able to do fantastic things and they already limit the number of spells you get by level compared to other editions.

Why not just eliminate that rule then.

Personally, I don't think mortals should have access to Wish.

 

[DM-Rocco]

That isn't the exploit under discussion. This is a different way to exploit simulacrum and wish.

Have I mentioned that simulacrum is a grotesque mockery which should never have been printed and is banned pre-emptively in all my campaigns?

I don't think any spell should be banned from the game, just a reasonable balance. I'm not trying to break the game and create a clone army, even though there are ways you could. More so than anything, I guess trying to find a way to avoid the 33% chance of never being able to cast wish again.

 

[Dausuul]

I don't think any spell should be banned from the game, just a reasonable balance. I'm not trying to break the game and create a clone army, even though there are ways you could. More so than anything, I guess trying to find a way to avoid the 33% chance of never being able to cast wish again.

My problem with simulacrum isn't the exploits. It is that using the spell purely as intended is unbelievably powerful. You double all but one of your spell slots. You get two spells per round, plus bonus actions and reactions. You get to concentrate on two things at once. And you get to do all this at 13th level, which is in the range of levels that you might actually reach in a typical campaign.

There are very few spells that I am moved to ban in 5E, and most of them are for gameplay or world-building reasons. Simulacrum is the only 5E spell that I consider too powerful to live.

 

[jgsugden]

Within the game, why does the Wish have that chance of preventing you from using the magic in such a way again? Answer that question, and then figure out how to apply that consideration to the simulacrum in a way that supports the story, and supports the balance of the game.

For me, the limitation, in game, is a reflection that you are pushing mortal magic to a maximum level and risk breaking your connection to the magical weave in a way that can never be repaired. A simulacrum, as a replication, lacks that connection in the first place.