Witchfire Collected Edition

[Thomas Percy]

1. There are supposed to be a couple of battles with the Thralls and there are a two acolytes who are there to be killed. Why not combine the two, fight the Thralls to save the acolytes, if the PCs don't act swiftly or effectively enough the acolytes are killed by the Thralls. This simple change would make the PCs much more involved, making a difference (not to mention a couple of allies in future adventures).

2. DMing isn't about following the adventure exactly or even at all, it's a starting block for the players to make their own stories, if the players go off script, don't force them back on, improvise!

3. I'm also curious what the differences between the 3E version and the compilation for 3.5E are. If i ever get my group motivated enough to play Witchfire i'll post my conversion notes ;-)

ad 1. Excelent idea imho. Saving the acolytes is much more personal heroic deed than saving the whole city. Those acolytes can be "face" of Corvis.

ad 2. I agree, but I haven't enough time to be as good DM as I wish to be.

ad 3.I will post me comparion thoughts absolutely.

 

[Vanuslux]

Part of it was a DM with completly different ideas of how a game should be run and little experiances, but playing through the first adventure soured me on Iron Kingdoms stuff. That final scene is terrible. For example, my Gun Mage <spoiler> fired at her as she was getting the sword. Natural 20 followed by a second 20. I was told "your gun misfired." After the game I pointed out that thre is nothing in the rules that would allow that result and was told that the module said she had to get away and that was that. <spoiler> If we had been somehow been distracted or engaged and were later told what happened I would have been fine with it as a Plot Point. But having the characters present and allowed to take actions but be totally ineffective no matter what they did was frustrating. I dont need to be frustrated as a player to have my PC be frustrated that the BBEG got away.

It's a pity that your DM couldn't at least come up with something better than "Your gun misfired." He could have described that you dealt a grievous wound and but had just enough life left in her to get away. The end result is the same, but doesn't rub your nose in your characters insignificance in the scene.

 

[Thomas Percy]

Climax of railroading and "The Longest Night" will come this Sunday.

Until now, I managed to hide railroading scenes, my players even begin second chapter from the end and nothing bad didn't happened.

So, my question, to EnWorlders don't familiar with Witchfire too, is about a ways to handle with railroading climax as such:

There is artifact hidden in a church.
There is 10th level necromancer with her 500 skeletons storming the church to take away this artifact.
There is 12th level wizard who appears and try to take the artifact for himself.
And there are 2nd (max 3rd) level PCs in the church, who can... what they can do? - this is a question.
To makes things worst, the necromancer must win, because in two next books the PCs will follow her to take away the artifact.

Men, what to do?

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

There is artifact hidden in a church.
There is 10th level necromancer with her 500 skeletons storming the church to take away this artifact.
There is 12th level wizard who appears and try to take the artifact for himself.
And there are 2nd (max 3rd) level PCs in the church, who can... what they can do? - this is a question.
To makes things worst, the necromancer must win, because in two next books the PCs will follow her to take away the artifact.

When we played it, we tried to protect the Church from the horde of undead, and do what we could to keep the bad guys from getting the sword. As long as the PC's can accomplish something they should be happy. In our case, we hadn't met the 12th level wizard, so that was something learned. Also, in our case, the press of enemies kept us seperated from the two bad guys so we kept fighting through the undead to get to them, and didn't make it ini time - of course, it may not be possible to make it in time, but the PC's don't need to now that. The PC's may not achieve ultimate success, but if they learn things that will set them up for ultimate success, they can be made happy.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

But...
now, because of this, my players look for railroading durning the session .

You have learned one of the essential rules of DM'ing - never let the PC's know what you're thinking! If you're making stuff up off the top of your head, or if there's a bit of railroading in the module - if you don't tell them, there's a very good chance they'll never know.

 

[painandgreed]

The fact that the PCs decide whether to give the blade to Alexia or Oberon is a lot of influence for a 1st-3rd level party vs. a 10th lvl Sorceress and a 12th lvl Wizard. That either choice will end with Alexia holding the Blade is not something the PCs ought to know.

It's isn't something a player ought to know and the time we played it, we didn't know it. However, it all became too clear as the scene was played out. Perhaps our DM mishandled it, but it also seems from what everybody else is saying that most other DMs did also or that is simply the way the adventure is written. Give the player the opportunity and they will come up with a wealth of ideas. Given that there are several people trying to outthink the DM, chances are one of them will come up with a decent idea that will not be prepared for and the DM will have no choice but to shown his railroad hand. Avoid the scene. Have them watch it from some other part of the castle or something while fighting things they can handle. But don't give them a chance to change things and then not let things change when they manage it.

 

[Stormborn]

It's isn't something a player ought to know and the time we played it, we didn't know it. However, it all became too clear as the scene was played out. Perhaps our DM mishandled it, but it also seems from what everybody else is saying that most other DMs did also or that is simply the way the adventure is written. Give the player the opportunity and they will come up with a wealth of ideas. Given that there are several people trying to outthink the DM, chances are one of them will come up with a decent idea that will not be prepared for and the DM will have no choice but to shown his railroad hand. Avoid the scene. Have them watch it from some other part of the castle or something while fighting things they can handle. But don't give them a chance to change things and then not let things change when they manage it.

I agree. In our case we a) didn't waste time messing around in the city but instead went straight to the temple because we knew thats what she was after and b) didn't intend to give it to either of them. Thats where we tried to go off the rails and couldn't. We weren't allowed to do anythign to slow down or prevent either of them taking the sword - not even something that might have meant one or more PCs deaths. Although I suppose shooting Alexia could have meant that and the DM decided not to do it that way.

Keeping the PCs away from the fight, even if it means giving Alexia some minion that they can fight to a standstill while she steals the sword and they learn about it later, would be better. Or, have some way in which the PCs might be able to twart her plans temporarilly only to have some previously unknown ally take the sword to her when their backs are turned. That would be frustrating, but at leas the players would feel that they did something and it was someone else's mistakes that led to the sword being lost.

 

[Waylander the Slayer]

Even though the module is railroady, you don't have to railroad. Run the adventure as it would be. I actually let the PC's have at it. If they wanted to tangle with a 12th level mage (they did) then so be it - they thwarted him even though there was a bunny rabbit chase scene. If the NPC dies, that's fine too - remember that Alexia has the "spirits" of others within her etc. Ultimately, things can be resolved by being creative rather than worrying too much about preserving the "plot." The PCs hid the sword afterwards but Alexia found it due to her natural bond/attunement to the weapon.

The PCs finished all 3 adventures and even faced down the big honcho in part 3 even though they got their asses whupped. I think a lot of it comes down to the group expectation - if players know that they will run into NPCs etc. that might be stronger and that everything cannot be resolved by straight up combat then they will handle situations appropriately.

 

[Thomas Percy]

But don't give them a chance to change things and then not let things change when they manage it.

It seems like a honest and simple solution.

Even though the module is railroady, you don't have to railroad. Run the adventure as it would be. I actually let the PC's have at it. If they wanted to tangle with a 12th level mage (they did) then so be it - they thwarted him even though there was a bunny rabbit chase scene. If the NPC dies, that's fine too - remember that Alexia has the "spirits" of others within her etc. Ultimately, things can be resolved by being creative rather than worrying too much about preserving the "plot." The PCs hid the sword afterwards but Alexia found it due to her natural bond/attunement to the weapon.

It seems like even more honest, but difficult solution.
It looks risky... I mean risk of loosing our money spended on whole trilogy if we won't be able to play next two parts.

 

[Marcon]

I didn't read the entire thread (Shame on me for being lazy) but I happen to be selling my copy of Witchfire Trilogy Collected Edition on eBay right now :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120097127013&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

-Marcon