withdrawing as a standard action?

[evilbob]

My friend TYPO5478 originally came up with this idea, but I do not see where anyone has posted it yet, so:

Does anyone see any big problems with withdrawing as a standard action? This was the end result of a discussion on the D&D Rules thread, and honestly I am liking the idea. The main line of reasoning is that "withdrawing" as an action makes little "sense," but it is a very important game mechanic. Would it help (and make more sense) if it were only a standard action (and thusly you could only move up to your speed and not double your speed)? And more importantly, would this become too powerful?

It seems like the creators decided that it needed a big penalty, and made it a full-round action: but I think there's not much that you can really do during a single move action that would unbalance this. And, if it needed more tweaking, it could cut your speed in half for the withdraw action only, or some other such condition. Other thoughts, suggestions?

 

[Thanee]

I don't think there would be any real problems.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Marcus Smythe]

Agreed. Its just not a big enough deal that I see it causing problems. It would make Close Combat a bit less 'sticky', but.. -shrugs- Big deal. Its not like you could standard-action withdraw and then shoot on a move action, etc.

 

[evilbob]

Actually, I guess that's the main question: are there any 'move action' actions that really would break this idea? I can't tell if the devs were just leaving this loose end tied up in case they ever wanted to go down that route, or if there was anything anyone had in mind... I suppose some feats could lend themselves to something bordering on abuse, like for example being able to feint as a move action or something similar. What if someone tried to feint as a move action and then used their standard action to run off and hide (ranger level 17)? Is that bad/broken? Anything similar to that that people can think of? (This is getting close to the "can you do __ while moving or does it need to be a move action" debate again, but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that it's hypothetically ok, just to cover all the bases on this separate issue.)

 

[Infiniti2000]

Actually, I guess that's the main question: are there any 'move action' actions that really would break this idea?

I have seen some houserules that allow this, bu I don't recall any official (i.e. printed) rule that has such Move Actions.

But, what's keeping you from taking a move Move Action and moving double your speed?

 

[Goken100]

Either I'm not understanding, your you guys are missing the point. If someone's getting their butt handed to them in combat, then IN REALITY, that somebody is in some deep danger. They cannot decide to simply withdraw whenever they want at maximum speed. For one thing, they're not facing the correct direction. For another, if they turn around they'll be skewered. And finally, in reality opponents would be able to move in that direction more easily and continue the conflict if desired.

Thus it is that those wishing to withdraw cannot make a double move. So that opponents can follow and attempt to continue the beat-down. Its their approximation of reality. If DMs are being realistic, they could have the baddies run away as soon as they start losing every time. Do we really want the DM to have to force the baddies to be stupid in order to ever get anything killed?

 

[Thurbane]

My group already houserules that unless your opponent is threatened by another creature, withdrawing draws an AoO. It always seems broken to us that you can suddenly turn and jog away from an opponent you are engaging without so much as a single AoO.

Sadly, I am even less enclined to let someone withdraw as a standard action, there is way too many things he could do with his remaining move action that would be open to misuse.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Examples? I am drawing a blank...

The text does state that if you are limited to only standard actions, you can still withdraw altho in this case you only can make a single move.

So, per RAW Withdraw is basically a Standard action movement that negates the AoO from the leaving the first square, followed by a second normal move.

The real question is "Is the movement of the Withdraw action 'normal' movement and as such the character can use such skills as Tumble or Jump?"

If it is, then the OPs suggestion of making it a Standard action won't have any effect on the mechanics. If it is not, then the OPs suggestion is a radical departure from RAW.

 

[Thurbane]

Hmm, perhaps I am just biased against withdraw altogether.

Open or close a door comes to mind. Say someone is fighting a dire bear about 20 feet from an open door - they use their standard action withdraw action to move into the next room just inside the door, and then uses his move action to slam the door shut - meanwhile, the poor old bear who never got to do anything other than sit there panting, wonders how the tasty morsel in front of it got to disappear without so much as single paw swipe...