Wizard Advice for New DM

[Lhorgrim]

Hi all, I have been a player for many years, but recently I decided to take the plunge and DM. To add a degree of difficulty, this is my group's first attempt at 3.5. I tried to get them to convert to 3.0, but they were firmly rooted in their heavily house-ruled 2nd edition. After a couple sessions of 3.0, they declared it a broken, power-gamer tabletop wargame.
I have been persistent, and they have finally agreed to try 3.5. No pressure. The main problem I'm having is the PC wizard. He is a straight class elven wizard, and after two game sessions he is 3rd level. He hasn't stopped complaining that his wizard is too weak since the first session. I let the PC's use a 30pt buy for character creation, while I used 28 for the NPC's. I could normally deal with this situation with some well placed magic items, given a bit of time. But, after last night's session he proclaimed that the wizard was broken and useless in 3.5, unless they started out at mid level(5th or higher) or they started as a fighter for some hit points and then multiclassed into a wizard later.
I countered that 2nd edition was no different, and that a low level mage in any system had to "pay his dues" before he could use world altering magic.
He was 2nd level for the game last night, he has a wand of magic missiles(3rd lvl), a pearl of power(1st lvl), and a masterwork short bow. The rest of his party is a dwarf fighter, a 1/2 elf rogue, a human fighter, and a human cleric of Pelor. All are the same level.
So help me out EN Worlders. Is my buddy correct, is there nobody out there who runs a straight class wizard? Am I being too strict by not giving him more magic items? Have I given him too many? I really want to keep playing 3.5, so any help is appreciated. I'll try to keep an eye on this post today( I'm at work) and answer any questions for clarification about my group.
Thanks

 

[Ottergame]

Hi all, I have been a player for many years, but recently I decided to take the plunge and DM. To add a degree of difficulty, this is my group's first attempt at 3.5. I tried to get them to convert to 3.0, but they were firmly rooted in their heavily house-ruled 2nd edition. After a couple sessions of 3.0, they declared it a broken, power-gamer tabletop wargame.
I have been persistent, and they have finally agreed to try 3.5. No pressure. The main problem I'm having is the PC wizard. He is a straight class elven wizard, and after two game sessions he is 3rd level. He hasn't stopped complaining that his wizard is too weak since the first session. I let the PC's use a 30pt buy for character creation, while I used 28 for the NPC's. I could normally deal with this situation with some well placed magic items, given a bit of time. But, after last night's session he proclaimed that the wizard was broken and useless in 3.5, unless they started out at mid level(5th or higher) or they started as a fighter for some hit points and then multiclassed into a wizard later.
I countered that 2nd edition was no different, and that a low level mage in any system had to "pay his dues" before he could use world altering magic.
He was 2nd level for the game last night, he has a wand of magic missiles(3rd lvl), a pearl of power(1st lvl), and a masterwork short bow. The rest of his party is a dwarf fighter, a 1/2 elf rogue, a human fighter, and a human cleric of Pelor. All are the same level.
So help me out EN Worlders. Is my buddy correct, is there nobody out there who runs a straight class wizard? Am I being too strict by not giving him more magic items? Have I given him too many? I really want to keep playing 3.5, so any help is appreciated. I'll try to keep an eye on this post today( I'm at work) and answer any questions for clarification about my group.
Thanks

Lemme get this straight, 3rd edition is a broken power gamers game, yet wizards are to weak? What f'ed up house rules were they using that made 2ed ed wizard powerful at low levels?

 

[billd91]

Your player is a wuss. Not only do wizards get more spells in 3E because they actually get bonus spells now, but you've also loaded him up with some pretty sweet goodies for such a low level character, had them rise in levels VERY quickly... AND you gave them a really favorable point buy amount.
And this is one of the players who complained that 3.0 was a broken power-gamer tabletop wargame?

Any player who complains about any edition of D&D being some kind of broken power-gamer tabletop wargame shouldn't feel that any class is significantly underpowered because they should be more interested in role-playing anyway and that requires no significant amount of class powers, high stats, or magic items.

Ask him if he wants some cheese with his whine next time he complains.
By the way, how do the other players feel about the game and this player's complaints. If they think things are OK, have them exert some peer pressure.

 

[Ottergame]

Teach him how to use his bow, that's pleanty good for a low level wizard, specially one with a 30 point buy, his dex should be very high.

 

[Torm]

Is this his first straight-class wizard? I've got a guy that I'm DMing that is playing a Wizard for the first time (long-time player, usually plays Rangers), and while not as fussy as your player sounds , he has also suggested that he finds it difficult to work with. Thing is, he's still playing it as a Ranger - rushing into melee combat and such. I've told him that, and we'll see if he manages to tweak his playing the right way - because there definitely is a right way. I usually play Wizards or Wizards that multiclass into Paladin later, and even with just the straight Wizard, I can usually almost be one of the TANKS for the party. Of course, my characters never mind getting bloody for a just cause, either - if you're playing a "hang back, hide, and sling spells" wizard, your milage may vary.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

If you get a chance, draft up a conversion of what the character would look like in your house-rule 2e game. Unless you guys went nutty with the wizard rules, he should be more powerful in 3e.

I have a hunch based on your post that your group was using Skills & Powers and probably a bunch of wacky wizard and/or elf kits. The player might have a legitamite complaint, but that has nothing to do with how you're playing now, it is more likely a reflection of how you were playing then.

3e quantified powers that 2e glossed over. That can easily lead to 2e players feeling that 3e is both munchkin and underpowered even though both terms are typically contradictory.

 

[Lhorgrim]

Lemme get this straight, 3rd edition is a broken power gamers game, yet wizards are to weak? What f'ed up house rules were they using that made 2ed ed wizard powerful at low levels?

I don't know that they ever played low level wizards before I started gaming with them about 5 years ago ( their group has been together since about 1987). Since I've been playing with them, we always start characters at 5th or 6th level at least, and the wizard class progression is faster than a fighter's up to about 9th lvl. The result was that the wizard would start with a good selection of spell and magic items, AND advance faster than just about anyone else.

 

[francisca]

Huh? He read the player description in the PHB or SRD, right? Gosh, if anything, a low-level stock wizard in 3.5 is way more powerful and useful than it's 1e/2e counterparts.

So let me see: On one hand, the group complains that it is a broken, power-gamer wargame. On the other, a player claims the wizard is too wimpy. Tell them to make up their minds.

Sounds like you have a player who simply doesn't like 3.5. I am guessing that no amount of apeasement will stop the complaining. I don't know if any advice about the wizard class will help.

As I see it, you have 3 options:

1) Tell him to shut up and play. Wizards are weak at low-levels. He chose his character, he should deal with it.
2) Ask him to leave the game.
3) Go back to 2E.

Are the other players unhappy with 3.5 as well? If they are, I'd go back to 2E. If they like it, then 1 or 2. Perhaps you could rotate 3.5 with 2E. This is always difficult to do when most of your group are casual players, so YMMV.

But, in the end, you should play what makes your group happy.

 

[Ottergame]

I don't know that they ever played low level wizards before I started gaming with them about 5 years ago ( their group has been together since about 1987). Since I've been playing with them, we always start characters at 5th or 6th level at least, and the wizard class progression is faster than a fighter's up to about 9th lvl. The result was that the wizard would start with a good selection of spell and magic items, AND advance faster than just about anyone else.

Sure, at 5th level the wizard enters the Fireball Age. At that point, the wizard alone can win fights, and end threats before they begin. They shift and become a potent force against a large number of mooks, which is death to a lower level wizard.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I don't know that they ever played low level wizards before I started gaming with them about 5 years ago ( their group has been together since about 1987). Since I've been playing with them, we always start characters at 5th or 6th level at least, and the wizard class progression is faster than a fighter's up to about 9th lvl. The result was that the wizard would start with a good selection of spell and magic items, AND advance faster than just about anyone else.

Well, that's part of the problem, they've never had to deal with a 1st level wizard before. Everything sounds great for this guy, I would have loved to have had his stuff at 3rd level.

And what do you mean wizard class progression is faster? Is that a house rule? As I recall 2e AD&D, the wizard had the slowest progession of any class, and I think I remember it well since I'm still bitter over getting screwed on the conversion to 3e