Wizard and spellbooks

[Trevelyan]

The rules for the wizard's spellbook seem a little unclear.

Each time you gain a level that lets you select a daily or utility spell you gain two spells. That's all ok up to level 9, but which point you should have 6 daily attack spells and be able to prepare three of them.

Next we're told that if you replace a spell due to retraining or gaining a level the previous spell is lost and replaced by the new spell. Laying aside the notion of vanishing spells, this is pretty clear on retraining and makes some sense but how does the "gaining a level" clause interact with the previous comment about getting two spells every time you gain a level that lets you select a daily spell?

Should a 19th level wizard have 6 daily spells (2 at level 1, 5 and 9) some of which he may have retrained as higher level spells? Should he have 10 daily spells (2 at level 1, 5, 9, 15 and 19) some of which he may also have retrained? Does the truth lie between the two in that retraining a 1st level spell at 15th level grants the wizard 2 15th level spells?!?

Now throw the Expanded Spellbook feat into the mix, which lets the player add a daily spell for each spell level he knows a that point, and in future add two spells instead of three on gaining a new level. Different interpretations of the original calss feature would lead to this feat working in different ways.

Any/all comments welcome.

 

[Bolongo]

Dude, you're complicating things so much you make my head hurt.

It's like this. The table on pg 29 of the PH tells you how many daily and utility spells you can "know" (a poor choice of words when it comes to the wizard, but we can gloss over that). Which levels they are depend on whether or not you've consistently replaced your lowest lvl spells with the highest lvl possible, but I can't see why you wouldn't. Now just double up at each lvl you know a spell (or triple, if you have the expanded book feat).

Granted, if you read pg 158 like a rules lawyer, it might seem that you only get to replace one of your two (or three) spells of a certain lvl when the replace option comes along, and you would have to use your once/lvl retraining chance to keep the rest of your spellbook up-to-date. But that would suck and be totally stupid. So don't run it like that.

 

[Trevelyan]

It's like this. The table on pg 29 of the PH tells you how many daily and utility spells you can "know" (a poor choice of words when it comes to the wizard, but we can gloss over that). Which levels they are depend on whether or not you've consistently replaced your lowest lvl spells with the highest lvl possible, but I can't see why you wouldn't. Now just double up at each lvl you know a spell (or triple, if you have the expanded book feat).

So you're saying treat Wizards like other classes but allow them two (or three) spells at any level for which they know spells?

That's certainly the easiest way to do it, but it's not the only interpretation I've heard. Anyone else agree or disagree?

 

[zoroaster100]

I agree that is the only reasonable explanation, and the way I intend to run it unless we get official errata that says otherwise. I agree the rules are ambiguous on this point, but I think it was intended to mean that when you retrain a power, for wizards it means retraining both (or all three) powers of the old level with two or three powers of the new level.

 

[DSRilk]

I agree with the interpretation, but don't get me started on the whole "remove a spell from your spellbook" thing. I'm STILL trying to figure some way to rationalize that. Honestly, I'm thinking of ignoring it entirely and just letting wizards add one more power to their repertoire every time they can retrain, though I'm not sure of the impact. All I know is that I can't stomach vanishing spells. Anyone who has a rational explanation for this, I'd beg you to share it (I get the game reason, I'm just looking for a rational in-world explanation).

 

[Fanaelialae]

I agree with the interpretation, but don't get me started on the whole "remove a spell from your spellbook" thing. I'm STILL trying to figure some way to rationalize that. Honestly, I'm thinking of ignoring it entirely and just letting wizards add one more power to their repertoire every time they can retrain, though I'm not sure of the impact. All I know is that I can't stomach vanishing spells. Anyone who has a rational explanation for this, I'd beg you to share it (I get the game reason, I'm just looking for a rational in-world explanation).

How about, when the wizard "replaces" a spell, he simply alters the formula of the previous spell to accomplish the new result. The old spell builds on the new one.

I realize it isn't a perfect explanation, but at least for me, it's an acceptable one. You could even say that wizards have a free pseudo-cantrip that allows them to rewrite the spells in their spellbook, if you don't like the idea that the spells contain scribbled out parts of previous spells.

 

[baberg]

I don't know how the officials will rule this, but here's how I'm going to do it:

- Spells only "vanish" from the spellbook if the wizard actively retrains them through gaining a level. In other words, when he levels he realizes that he rarely uses Fireball and would rather have Bigby's Icy Grasp in its place. Fireball vanishes from the spellbook and is replaced by BIG.

- When gaining a level states that you can "replace a power" the wizard can just add two (three with Feats) spells to his spellbook. Thus he keeps the ability to prepare and use the lower level powers. No erasure is required.

It makes sense to me that a class has to actively practice certain maneuvers to keep using them (like Passing Attack) and if they decide to stop practicing that for a higher level power, they lose the ability to use that lower level attack. But for a Wizard, who keeps his spells written down and just "prepares" them in his mind, I don't see why he'd have to erase the lower level spells to add higher level ones.

Again, no idea what the official explanation is, but that's how I'd rule it.

 

[Naszir]

I have to say this is bugging me as well. The spell simply vanishes from the book? What?

If you say that the newer spell builds on the lower level one it kind of makes sense but what if you cannot see any sort of relation between the spells? I know this is fluff but I'd still like it to make some sort of sense.

I've also heard that you cannot prepare the same spell twice. Why not? Is there some sort of magic weave that the wizard creates that doesn't allow the same spell to be prepared twice due to arcane overlap.

DING, Idea ....

Hmm, maybe that could make some sense. You can't prepare the same spell twice because you'll cause some sort of arcane wirecrossing that is bad, bad, bad. Either you could short circuit the spell or create an uncontrolled aracne energy feedback that a Wizard couldn't control.

 

[Tony Vargas]

If you can accept that a wizard can only 'know' a handful of spells in the first place, then 'forgtetting' one to make room for another within that limit shouldn't be an issue. Probably, it is a case of 'use it or lose it,' as with any other ability.

 

[Naszir]

If you can accept that a wizard can only 'know' a handful of spells in the first place, then 'forgtetting' one to make room for another within that limit shouldn't be an issue. Probably, it is a case of 'use it or lose it,' as with any other ability.

But it is not a matter of just forgetting one. It is a matter of the Wizard puts a new spell in his spellbook and another spell strangely vanishes from the spellbook. That does not make it a use it or lose it kind of thing.

I suppose the spellbook is "magical" and you could potentially say that the writting is "magical". When you learn a new spell you incorporate it into your spellbook and it transfers some of the arcane energy from the spell you are "forgetting" or "transforming" into the new spell that you are writting and that is why it vanishes.

I'm not sure I completely like this but it does seem to work.


As far as why some spells must be prepared and some don't need to be:

Taking a cue from the Earthdawn RPG, I would say that Utility and Dailey spells require a partial arcane matrix to be prepared at the beginning of each day for each of those types of spells. When a Wizard goes to cast those spells he completes the arcane matrix and unleashes the magical energy of that spell. When this is done the partial matrix for the spell is gone.

There are some Utility spells that are encounter powers but I guess they can be explained that those the arcane matrix are slightly different and are able to maintain themselves throughout the day but they need to recharge.