Wizard attack question - Intelligence bonus

[buddhafrog]

This might be a simple (i.e., stupid) question:

My group has reached 4th level and were leveling up. It's a big level up for a ranger of ours - picked up the bastardsword prof. (+3), the 1/2 level bonus (+1), and increased strength to 18 (+4). His longsword attack went from a modest +4 to a solid +9 in one level.

My Wizard is angry and jealous (and only a 7th grader). His Intelligence was 20 at level 1 (+5). Now, at level 4, he is still stuck at +5 to attack.

This doesn't seem right to me. I've searched but haven't found what I'm assuming would be increases to his Atk bonuses. Aren't there any? When he's level 15 or 25, how is he supposed to hit?

 

[Mort_Q]

His attack bonus should be +5 for the INT if it is still 20 (although it should be 21 at level 4, which is still +5), +2 for the 1/2 level, for +7, plus any implement bonus... and he really should have an implement at this level.

What sort of Wiz did he make (i.e. Staff, Orb, Wand) ?

His attack will be a little lower than the Rangers, but he's also not attacking AC.

You should perhaps reread the stuff in the PHB on page 274.

 

[Zaran]

The wizard also gets +2 (1/2 per level) as well. You can't compare the Weapon proficiency to the wizards attacks because a wizards powers do not target AC like most of the ranger powers. The game is designed so AC is usually higher than the other defenses thus those with attacks vs AC need the boost of Weapon Proficiency's .

 

[buddhafrog]

Correction: his Int. is 21, but still +5

Thanks, a little embarrassing to need to ask these basics.... but now I know, and knowing is 1/2 the battle.

How'd I miss that all attacks increased at 1/2 level? This helps a lot. Re-read page 274. Um, guess I skimmed. opps.

We're going magic semi-light with fewer +x items, so no implement bonus yet.

THANKS GREATLY.

 

[spayne]

This might be a simple (i.e., stupid) question:

My group has reached 4th level and were leveling up. It's a big level up for a ranger of ours - picked up the bastardsword prof. (+3), the 1/2 level bonus (+1), and increased strength to 18 (+4). His longsword attack went from a modest +4 to a solid +9 in one level.

Was he not applying the +3 proficiency bonus for the longsword? It looks like he should have been at +7 before, not +4.


There are feats for a wizard to increase his attack bonus.

Superior Implement Training
Implement Expertise

 

[Klaus]

Correction: his Int. is 21, but still +5

Thanks, a little embarrassing to need to ask these basics.... but now I know, and knowing is 1/2 the battle.

How'd I miss that all attacks increased at 1/2 level? This helps a lot. Re-read page 274. Um, guess I skimmed. opps.

We're going magic semi-light with fewer +x items, so no implement bonus yet.

THANKS GREATLY.

You might wanna try using Inherent Bonuses (detailed as an option in DMG2). Basically, characters with Inherent Bonuses don't need +x items.

 

[mkill]

We're going magic semi-light with fewer +x items, so no implement bonus yet.

I suggest to your DM to stick to the treasure guidelines in the Dungeon Master's Guide. 4th edition assumes that PCs have certain magic items for game balance. A 5th level character should have a +1 weapon or implement, +1 armor and a +1 neck slot item.

If PCs are underequipped, the game can become frustrating at higher levels: PCs miss a lot, which means more wasted dailies, and defenders spend a lot of time dying on the floor because their defenses aren't high enough to take monsters head-on.

If your DM doesn't like "dropping" +1 swords with monsters, there are alternatives: the rules for inherent bonuses were mentioned. Another option are "legendary" weapons - each PC owns a special weapon / implement that was given to him by a god / mentor / ancestor and that levels with him (i.e. that gains a higher bonus automatically when necessary). Or the DM can hand out magical treasure through NPCs as rewards for completing quests.

If the situation stays like this, ask your DM about it (in a nice, friendly way), or point him to this thread.

My group has reached 4th level and were leveling up. It's a big level up for a ranger of ours - picked up the bastardsword prof. (+3), the 1/2 level bonus (+1), and increased strength to 18 (+4). His longsword attack went from a modest +4 to a solid +9 in one level.

You forget that the longsword he used before already had a +3 proficiency bonus. So he went from
+7 = +3 (17 Str) +1 (1/2 level) +3 (longsword)
to
+9 = +4 (18 Str) +2 (1/2 level) +3 (bastard sword)

Nothing unusual here. Also note that your ranger will usually attack a monster's AC, while your Wizard will attack Fortitude, Reflex or Will. Your Wizard does not get a +3 bonus to attack from weapon proficiency, but the monster defense he attacks will be 2 or 3 points lower. It all evens out.

 

[Aulirophile]

The above is right on the money. Monster AC averages 2 points higher then their NADs. So the Weapon Profiency bonus effectively cancels (if your players don't believe you, tell them to look at their sheets. Notice how much higher their AC is? Yeah.)

In addition, assuming you are following a module or the DMG encounter guidelines, everyone should have a magical weappon/implement, armor, and +1 neck right now. If they don't, use the Inherent Bonuses in DMG2. 4e is balanced around getting those magic items at specific intervals. Not including them will seriously hurt the characters (at the extreme end resulting in needing a 15 on the die to hit an even level monster by late Heroic, assuming unoptimized characters).

 

[Starfox]

This might be a simple (i.e., stupid) question:

My group has reached 4th level and were leveling up. It's a big level up for a ranger of ours - picked up the {b]bastardsword prof[/b]. (+3), the 1/2 level bonus (+1), and increased strength to 18 (+4). His longsword attack went from a modest +4 to a solid +9 in one level.

Are the bolded pats typos? If he went from a longsword to a bastard sword attack, his attack bonus should not change because of that because he was already proficient with the longsword because of his class. The difference is that his [W] damage goes from 1d8 to 1d10. If he is still using the longsword, there should be no difference at all, as it does not take a feat to gain the proficiency bonus with a martial weapon like the longsword. Rangers start with proficiency in all martial weapons.

 

[buddhafrog]

I'm on Korean time - sorry I couldn't respond earlier and fix one of the points. The ranger uses a bastardsword and always has. I actually typed in longsword at first but remembered the correct weapon, so went back in and fixed it... but only corrected one which made everything more confusing. *Sorry*

Surprisingly, he picked up his first proficiency just this level - the +3 for his bastard sword.

As for the Wizard, I got it completely now. Thanks a lot. Sorry for my ignorance, but I gotta start somewhere, right?

I do like the idea about inherent bonuses as well - I will look into these.

Unfortunately, the advice about how to deal with the DM should be directed at me - I am the DM. New, yes, and DM'ing kids, yes, but still these are things I should know.