Pathfinder 1E Wizard gaining a level

[Clyde Lee Graham]

Of course, he can't scribe a 4th-level spell into his spellbook yet.

That's incorrect. If he's borrowing another wizard's spell book, assuming he can make the spellcraft check, he can scribe spells that he is incapable of casting. It's not much different than the spellcraft check you have to make to cast from a scroll higher than your level in that respect.

Now, your two free spells when you level are different. Those, as it says, can't be any higher than what you can cast when you gain that level.

 

[Light Knight]

The way I always explained it to my players was that wizards spend some of their spell prep time working on spells they can't cast yet. When you hit 5th level, you aren't casting fireball for the first time. You're casting fireball correctly for the first time.

I had one player who ran with that idea and, once or twice a fight, would announce at the end of his turn, "...and then I cast cone of cold. But it fizzles." Didn't cost him any actions, and it was fun to imagine him furiously trying to cast spells he couldn't quite get the hang of yet.

David Noonan
DM at large

Love it! Thanks sharing....miss having good roleplaying in the game!

 

[haakon1]

So to clarify, there is no time once you "DING" for those spells to be available. I hit 5th level, and instead of waiting 3 hours, I can instantly prepare the fireball spell.

Not an issue in my campaign, because I only allow leveling up during downtime, in a safe area between adventures where they can "train" and wizards can do research, etc. I tell them there's a cost for training for a new level, but it's typically taken care of by NPC sponsors/mentors, and at 5th level they no longer need a trainer because they are highly experienced in my campaign world (a guy who can cast Fireball is not to be trifled with).

Generally the PC's take a week or a few weeks off to train, and they also typically go shopping, make items, and do some non-combat roleplaying during that time. It can be hand-waved and not take much table time, but it does take in game time.

If it matters, I'm currently running 3.5e in a Greyhawk campaign that intentional has an AD&D feel. Time off to train feels old school -- and realistic -- to me.

 

[haakon1]

It does seem a bit mind-bending, but then, so is the concept of leveling up to begin with. Is there one discrete moment in time at which your character transitions from being completely unable to cast X level spells to being able to cast them perfectly and without error?

That's why downtime training makes sense to me. It also means we only have to worry about leveling up between adventures, and the downtime gives me a chance to set new plot hooks for the next adventure.

 

[Rabulias]

Consider the abstract nature of "levels" and you can turn this on its head:

Rather than levelling and then being able to understand/memorize/scribe/cast those two new spells, perhaps the character levels because they can now understand/memorize/scribe/cast those higher level spells.

"When I was casting burning hands in that fight with the bugbears, I suddenly saw what I have been doing wrong with that darn fireball spell all these weeks..."

 

[Ahnehnois]

That's why downtime training makes sense to me. It also means we only have to worry about leveling up between adventures, and the downtime gives me a chance to set new plot hooks for the next adventure.

And learn new spells.

 

[delericho]

So to clarify, there is no time once you "DING" for those spells to be available. I hit 5th level, and instead of waiting 3 hours, I can instantly prepare the fireball spell.

Pretty much. Basically, up to that point the Wizard has been doodling about with the theory behind the spell, not quite getting it... and suddenly he has a "eureka!" moment, when the whole thing just crystalises.

And, of course, once he's had that moment of clarity, the whole thing is just so obvious that he ever-after wonders just why it was so hard for him to grasp.

It does seem a bit mind-bending, but then, so is the concept of leveling up to begin with...

Funnily enough, having experienced almost exactly that on more than one occasion, I find the "moment of clarity" explanation one of the least mind-bending things in D&D. (Yes, I don't cast spells, but the notion of going from "I don't quite understand this" to "d'oh... of course!" is quite familiar.)

 

[Ahnehnois]

Funnily enough, having experienced almost exactly that on more than one occasion, I find the "moment of clarity" explanation one of the least mind-bending things in D&D. (Yes, I don't cast spells, but the notion of going from "I don't quite understand this" to "d'oh... of course!" is quite familiar.)

Epiphanies do happen. What seems odd is that every thing you gain with a level (attacks, saves, skills, and spells) advances at the same moment. And while they do happen; you can't always necessarily identify one moment where you went from not understanding something to understanding it (even if such moment must indeed exist). Your point isn't wrong; just part of the story.

 

[delericho]

Epiphanies do happen. What seems odd is that every thing you gain with a level (attacks, saves, skills, and spells) advances at the same moment. And while they do happen; you can't always necessarily identify one moment where you went from not understanding something to understanding it (even if such moment must indeed exist). Your point isn't wrong; just part of the story.

True, that.