Wizard Spell Progression Per Level in The New System...

[Scribble]

So I've been playing around with how to break up the spells into 20 levels to get a feel for how it might sort of work in 4e... And I'm running in to an interesting (at least i think) thing with the Wizard's Spell progression table.

Basically, it has to change... Either Wizards get more spells overall as they gain levels, or they get to max out their lower level spells more quickly...

Example...

Currently at say, 5th level a wizard gets:

4 zeroith, 3 first, 2 second, and 1 third...

in a 20 spells system that would be:

4 zeroith, 2 first 1 second 1 third 1 fourth and 1 fifth...

But what happens when we hit 6th level?

Currently:

4 zeroith, 3 first, 3 second, and 2 third...

How would that translate?

4 zeroith, 2 first 1 second, 2 third, 1 forth 1 fifth and 1 sixth?

That seems wrong, since you're then getting more third level (2nd) spells before more second... (1st)

So it seems more logical that it would be closer to:

4 zeroith, 2 first, 2 second, 1 third, 1 forth, 1 fifth and 1 sixth...

Or that they just get more spells in total, and we see something different then the current amiount per level...

'll admit I'm not a math expert, so I might have really missed something... What do you think?

 

[Gentlegamer]

I think there is going to be a shift away from "spell slots" in the old D&D/Vancian magic sense and more spell-like powers usable per encounter. Probably, the most powerful magic effects will remain traditional D&D/Vancian spells to be memorized via spell slots.

 

[Scribble]

I think there is going to be a shift away from "spell slots" in the old D&D/Vancian magic sense and more spell-like powers usable per encounter. Probably, the most powerful magic effects will remain traditional D&D/Vancian spells to be memorized via spell slots.

Well, they said Vancian magic will remain, it'll just be one of multiple types of magic...

They also said wizards will be able to cast 25th level spells...

Just leads me to believe there will be a level of spells for every character level.

So you think less spells overall to make up for more "disciplines?"

 

[Gentlegamer]

I'm thinking the "Vancian" spells will not constitute the whole of a wizard character's magic spell resources. There will be other spells/spell-like powers available that don't use spell slots. These will probably be the more "mundane" magical abilities, such as the current list of 0-level spells, and other low powered, non-combat, non-adventure breaking abilities (things that are "safe" for game balance to be used repeatedly on a per encounter or other basis). The high powered stuff will probably remain to be managed in the traditional Vancian spell casting system.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

I'm thinking the break down will be something like this:

10th level Caster (Prediction: No more 0 level spells.)

Spell Level - Usage, number of spells known of that level - 3.5 equivalent

1 - Unlimited use, Knows 10 spells - 0 & 1st level 3.5 spells
2 - Unlimited use, Knows 9 spells - 1st & 2nd level 3.5 spells
3 - Unlimited use, Knows 8 spells - 2nd level 3.5 spells
4 - Once per encounter per prepared spell, Knows 7 spells - 2nd & 3rd level 3.5 spells
5 - Once per encounter per prepared spell, Knows 6 spells - 3rd level 3.5 spells
6 - Once per encounter per prepared spell, Knows 5 spells - 3rd & 4th level 3.5 spells
7 - Once per day per prepared spell, Knows 4 spells - 4th level 3.5 spells
8 - Once per day per prepared spell, Knows 3 spells - 4th & 5th level 3.5 spells
9 - Once per day per prepared spell, Knows 2 spells - 5th level 3.5 spells
10 - Once per day per prepared spell, Knows 1 spells - 5th & 6th level 3.5 spells

 

[Scribble]

I'm thinking the "Vancian" spells will not constitute the whole of a wizard character's magic spell resources. There will be other spells/spell-like powers available that don't use spell slots. These will probably be the more "mundane" magical abilities, such as the current list of 0-level spells, and other low powered, non-combat, non-adventure breaking abilities (things that are "safe" for game balance to be used repeatedly on a per encounter or other basis). The high powered stuff will probably remain to be managed in the traditional Vancian spell casting system.

Yes I agree... Things like tough attack spells or ranged touch attack spells will be able to be "permanent" as well as certain buffs... like energy resistance and mage armor.

My question though, is what will happen with the spell progression? Do you think they will hand out less spells overall because of the permanent ones? (Makes sense...)

 

[Scribble]

I'm thinking the break down will be something like this:

10th level Caster (Prediction: No more 0 level spells.)

Spell Level - Usage, number of spells known of that level - 3.5 equivalent

1 - Unlimited use, Knows 10 spells - 0 & 1st level 3.5 spells
2 - Unlimited use, Knows 9 spells - 1st & 2nd level 3.5 spells
3 - Unlimited use, Knows 8 spells - 2nd level 3.5 spells
4 - Once per encounter per prepared spell, Knows 7 spells - 2nd & 3rd level 3.5 spells
5 - Once per encounter per prepared spell, Knows 6 spells - 3rd level 3.5 spells
6 - Once per encounter per prepared spell, Knows 5 spells - 3rd & 4th level 3.5 spells
7 - Once per day per prepared spell, Knows 4 spells - 4th level 3.5 spells
8 - Once per day per prepared spell, Knows 3 spells - 4th & 5th level 3.5 spells
9 - Once per day per prepared spell, Knows 2 spells - 5th level 3.5 spells
10 - Once per day per prepared spell, Knows 1 spells - 5th & 6th level 3.5 spells

Hrmm not sure I agree with that one...

Unless they've drastically re-aligned what the levels contain...

I kind of agree with the way Monte Cook was speaking, when he mentioned certain spells will remain spells, while others would be "disciplines..." and usable constantly... Stuff that wasn't going to be crazy if used over and over and over...

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Hrmm not sure I agree with that one...

Unless they've drastically re-aligned what the levels contain...

I kind of agree with the way Monte Cook was speaking, when he mentioned certain spells will remain spells, while others would be "disciplines..." and usable constantly... Stuff that wasn't going to be crazy if used over and over and over...

In retrospect, I agree. I wonder if those will come from class abilities, feats, or talents?

 

[grimslade]

I wonder if we'll see a warlock approach to the wizard. Eldritch Blast /Magic Missle thingy for every round then select invocations for per encounter maneuvers and study a limited list of Vancian spells per day.

So you would see drastically lowered amounts of spell slots per day, maybe 1 per level.
Doing things this way sorcerors would be all about maneuvers and wizards would sacrifice maneuvers for more Vancian spell slots. The balance of the different spell slots would be paramount.
Maybe specialist wizards would have a different per round ability pertaining to their school like the specialist wizard alternate class features in PHBII.

 

[Scribble]

I wonder if we'll see a warlock approach to the wizard. Eldritch Blast /Magic Missle thingy for every round then select invocations for per encounter maneuvers and study a limited list of Vancian spells per day.

So you would see drastically lowered amounts of spell slots per day, maybe 1 per level.
Doing things this way sorcerors would be all about maneuvers and wizards would sacrifice maneuvers for more Vancian spell slots. The balance of the different spell slots would be paramount.
Maybe specialist wizards would have a different per round ability pertaining to their school like the specialist wizard alternate class features in PHBII.

Sounds reasonable... I'm interested to see what Monte Cook posts in the next few weeks... (when he posts his 3.5 rukles for 20 spell levels...)

I did a rough progression keeping the same overall number of spells per level... But I couldn't get up to 2 spells per level (4) for all levels...

the last 2 levels only topped out at 1 spell each (2 ninth level spells...)

Then again I didn't try to many patterns...