Wizards 2008 releases?

[Razz]

Ugh, I hate the Realms novels so much now I've quit reading them.

I thought stories were supposed to be about the CHARACTERS and how they deal with their lives or what life throws at them in a world like Toril.

Instead, it seems every author is jumping on the "Shatter canon lore!" wagon.

Let's see, from the top of my head, let me list all the catastrophic events happening all simultaneously in the Realms which is turning the entire world upside-down all of a sudden:

Here's the list covered in spoiler marking:

Spoiler

---Lolth's Silence (nearly destroyed Menzoberranzan, re-structured the cosmology, destroyed a few other cities)

---Vhaeraun and Selvetarm's death and possibly the rest of the drow pantheon leaving only, most likely, Lolth alive in the end (a set of novels AFTER Lolth's Silence...what gives? Now a restructing of pantheons?!)

---Elven crusade to take over Myth Drannor, complete. (now we've lost the one cool place for adventurers to, well, adventure in)

---Khelben Blackstaff's death

---Halaster Blackcloak's death

---Iyraclea's death

---The Sybil's death

---Civil war in Sembia

---A war in Thay with an army of undead

---A war in the Silver Marches with King Obould

When will they STOP!?

I like the way Eberron does their novels. They're stories but they're NOT CANON. The Realms novels needs to do this. For one, the stories are now about let's see which author can shake the Realms apart. Bad writing and bad design. Second, it's supposed to be about the PCs considering it should be a GAME WORLD first, and a NOVEL world last. These events make for good adventure modules for the PCs to get involved in.

 

[Shazman]

I could be misremembering, but a lot of the 2e material was 'fluff'.

On the other hand, since I have a lot of that material, the new material in the new format isn't doing a lot for me and I prefer crunch.

You still have to admit that the new release schedule is vastly different than it was earlier this year and for several years previous to it. Instead of Complete Warrior II, we get Confessions of a Part-Time Sorceress and Behind The Scenes: Worlds and Monsters, etc. This stuff doesn't even qualify as fluff. It appears to be a complete 180 from their prior emphasis on crunch. Add in the cancellation of Code Monkey's and Paizo's liscenses , and you can't really beleive they aren't up to something big.

 

[JoeGKushner]

You still have to admit that the new release schedule is vastly different than it was earlier this year and for several years previous to it. Instead of Complete Warrior II, we get Confessions of a Part-Time Sorceress and Behind The Scenes: Worlds and Monsters, etc. This stuff doesn't even qualify as fluff. It appears to be a complete 180 from their prior emphasis on crunch. Add in the cancellation of Code Monkey's and Paizo's liscenses , and you can't really beleive they aren't up to something big.

Well, I don't think I've ever claimed any insider knowledge.

However, WoTC seems to be trying to react to some elements.

When people didn't want fluff, such as at the start of 3.0, the products that were heavy on crunch sold well and those that didn't have it did not sell as well.

As the system has continued to expand, people needed adventurers but the shrinking market wasn't supporting them so WoTC does more adventures. Also 'backlash' against too much crunch so fluff ratio increases.

Games still down so WoTC tries to expand the market via books like Confessions and Gleemax. Court is out on what effect the DI will have but the initial impact of cancelling Dungeon and Dragon magazines is almost universally negative on the vocal front. If that actually results in less sales for WoTC, I don't think we'll ever know.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

You still have to admit that the new release schedule is vastly different than it was earlier this year and for several years previous to it. Instead of Complete Warrior II, we get Confessions of a Part-Time Sorceress and Behind The Scenes: Worlds and Monsters, etc. This stuff doesn't even qualify as fluff. It appears to be a complete 180 from their prior emphasis on crunch. Add in the cancellation of Code Monkey's and Paizo's liscenses , and you can't really beleive they aren't up to something big.

They go in cycles on product.

And WotC's been on the fluff wagon for a while. The Practical Guide to Dragons (a kid's version of the Draconomicon) came out in September 2006. The Practical Guide to Monsters comes out later this year.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Well, I guess people are getting tired of more of the same. Crunch isn't bad, but if it's not much different from the stuff you got last year, you're less inclined to get it. And doing completely new crunch (like the Book of Nine Swords) isn't easy.

*has only one comment about Realms* They need to STOP taking the Archfiends for granted!

Those guys have been around longer than Cyric and certainly nearly as long as Shar. Yet when it comes to the deities it's like "Oh yeah the gods are powerful and thus can just boss the Demon Princes around." kind of deal.

What the heck?! *sighs* Stupid writers need to respect the TRUE powers of the Lower Planes.

Disgruntled Demon Cultists are so funny

Nope sorry, have to disagree with you there. I LIKE that the Realms is a constantly changing, evolving world.

Me, too. A static world isn't fun.

But it's the old problem: If you don't do RSEs, people complain. If you do RSEs, people complain. If you try to find a middle ground, everyone complains. (Okay, not everyone, some will see the benefit of this)

It is simple enough to say "such and such event doesn't happen in my Realms". You don't have to incorporate every RSE into your FR campaign, nor do you have to have them occur exactly as they are in the novels.

Exactly. It is very easy to ignore novels and developments in later sourcebooks and just use the Realms like they are in the Campaign Setting.

It's harder to come up with dozens of events that go on in the world, but aren't connected to your party.

So the best thing for Wizards is to do things in their books and novels that change the realms, that are interesting to read (I wouldn't want dozens of novel trilogies about farm boys who defend their homestead from goblins and then go wipe out a small orc tribe). You can ignore the stuff, you can let it run in the background, never influencing your own campaign too much, but they bring the Realms to life.

 

[Nepenthe]

So the best thing for Wizards is to do things in their books and novels that change the realms, that are interesting to read (I wouldn't want dozens of novel trilogies about farm boys who defend their homestead from goblins and then go wipe out a small orc tribe). You can ignore the stuff, you can let it run in the background, never influencing your own campaign too much, but they bring the Realms to life.

Isn't that pretty much what the Realms books used to be like? I mean, I do have quite a few of them (mostly pre-2000) and most of them (the harpers series and so on) certainly didn't have any Realms shaking events (I find the fact that there's an abbreviation for such a thing more than a little disturbing, to be honest)

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Isn't that pretty much what the Realms books used to be like? I mean, I do have quite a few of them (mostly pre-2000) and most of them (the harpers series and so on) certainly didn't have any Realms shaking events

I can't remember the plots of many of them, but those I do remember (having recently read the Starlight and Shadows books), there is often more going on than some purely local matters. Most of the time, when a big event didn't happen, it was because it was just averted.

Sure, some have small stories, but that's true for current books, too. There might be more big things going on than before, but it's certainly not exclusive:

The Depths of Madness was about one Dungeon, one or two adventuring parties, and a couple of villains.
The latter two books of the Sellswords trilogy (Salvatore's books about Entreri and Jarlaxle) didn't have anything even approaching an RSE.
Frostfell also only covered an icy wasteland and was more about persons than bigger events.
Swords of Eveningstar, if I recall correctly, was also mostly about a start-up adventuring band.
Bloodwalk was about one or two cities.
The whole Fighters Series wasn't about big things, either.

(I find the fact that there's an abbreviation for such a thing more than a little disturbing, to be honest)

Bah. This is the internet. Sometimes things get abbreviations before they're mentioned twice. It's the well-known IAS (internet abbreviation syndrome)

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Second, it's supposed to be about the PCs considering it should be a GAME WORLD first, and a NOVEL world last.

I'm just not sure that's actually true, Luis. Again - Forgotten Realms game products don't hit the New York Times best-seller list. Forgotten Realms novels do.

You wouldn't complain if, say, you were using the d20 Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game and it turned out that Robert Jordan's latest entry in the Neverending Series changed the world so much that a significant amount of the game information was affected, because you understand that you're playing a game based on the novels, not reading novels based on the game setting.

It may simply be that market forces have convinced Wizards of the Coast to make this the de facto case for the Forgotten Realms.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

But it's the old problem: If you don't do RSEs, people complain.

Who's complaining about Eberron being static?

RSEs are necessary because the marketing department doesn't seem to think they can tell stories about inviduals that are compelling enough to sell novels. Never mind that The Hobbit wasn't a Middle Earth shaking event, but a straight-up dungeon crawl, for the most part, that also focused a lot on the personal growth of the title character.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm just not sure that's actually true, Luis. Again - Forgotten Realms game products don't hit the New York Times best-seller list. Forgotten Realms novels do.

You wouldn't complain if, say, you were using the d20 Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game and it turned out that Robert Jordan's latest entry in the Neverending Series changed the world so much that a significant amount of the game information was affected, because you understand that you're playing a game based on the novels, not reading novels based on the game setting.

It may simply be that market forces have convinced Wizards of the Coast to make this the de facto case for the Forgotten Realms.

It's not necessary to have RSE in a FR novel. It's an editorial choice, and one that puts the novel readers ahead of the gamers.