Wizards become the "needed" character over Clerics

[JVisgaitis]

The big problem with all of the previous editions was you always had someone that "got stuck" with the Cleric. Personally, I hate Clerics and WotC solved the problem beautifully as the Warlord is a great class.

Seems like that problems shifts to the Wizard in 4e now since they are the only Controller in the PHB. Just curious what everyone's thoughts are on this. And to the guys at WotC, why go with 3 Strikers instead of 2 Controllers? Was another damage dealer really that necessary?

 

[Relique du Madde]

::cough:: Marketing ploy ::cough::

 

[Agamon]

There's more to come? Splats in previous editions didn't solve the cleric thing very well, but they'll alleviate this problem, I think.

 

[Nifft]

1/ Strikers are a lot of fun, and are easy to write, because killin' stuff with damage is easy (and fun).

2/ Controller is a role that demands a lot of attention, because shutting down foes just a little too hard isn't like hitting them just a little too hard: a few hit points will reduce a fight by a round or two, but eliminating the ability of an opponent to meaningfully respond will circumvent the threat entirely.

3/ If you throw a few points into his Intelligence, the Warlock has some Controller capabilities. The Cleric has some, too.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Victim]

Most classes have AoE powers. If you don't have a wizard, the group can adjust to emphasize those abilities more. I think a fighter can pick up Close Burst attacks with pretty much all his encounter powers, for instance. Rogues have some Blast knife throwing powers. Rangers have Close burst attacks or multitarget damage splitting attacks. Clerics have some good nukes too. Warlocks actually seem to multitarget blast better than the wizard at level 3. Etc.

As long as everyone picks a few powers to compensate for their multitarget weakness, the group should do okay.

 

[Ander00]

Yeah, you can do without a controller easily enough. It's harder to compensate for the lack of a leader, so you essentially have the same problem as always, except that you can still have a some in-combat healing without one, and that the warlord is new and shiny, so people might be more inclined to try playing one.

Also, as has been said, there are more to come. I expect great things from the psion.


cheers

 

[WhatGravitas]

From 4E, I have the feeling that filling the roles is handy but not required.

No controller? But you get something else. While you lose out synergies, you gain pure damage potential from a striker, more general performance from a leader, more covering from a defender.

I think the only "must-have" role is defender, because the defender is the only class that has serious melee staying power (not damage, but long-term staying power).

Cheers, LT.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

From 4E, I have the feeling that filling the roles is handy but not required.

No controller? But you get something else. While you lose out synergies, you gain pure damage potential from a striker, more general performance from a leader, more covering from a defender.

I think the only "must-have" role is defender, because the defender is the only class that has serious melee staying power (not damage, but long-term staying power).

Cheers, LT.

I think Warlords and possibly Clerics can cover the Defender role. Not as good as a "real" Defender, but they are the most likely ones to stay there for a while.

 

[Victim]

I think Warlords and possibly Clerics can cover the Defender role. Not as good as a "real" Defender, but they are the most likely ones to stay there for a while.

Yeah. A Leader throwing their feats at defenses (heavy armor, shield prof, specialization, toughness, etc) should be able to match a defender in durability. Especially with a number of healing abilities to keep themselves up. Soulforged armor is great on a leader, since they should almost have the ability to patch themselves up on that turn.

They aren't very sticky, however, even with a paragon path to add some marking. That might be a problem depending on composition - but if you short a defender, then having a dual leaders or some tough strikers (hex hammer or something) would be helpful.

 

[Rechan]

A party with a good party synergy doesn't need every role completed. A warlord, a fighter or paladin and a rogue or ranger might go very far.

I think one responsibility that the DM has is engineering encounters so you're not constantly shoving a party's weakness in their face. Make adventures that play to the party's strengths, while occasionally giving a situation where it would be easier for them had that hole been filled - simply to give them a tough challenge.