Wizards become the "needed" character over Clerics

[JVisgaitis]

Marketing is not only about selling items right off the bat...

Agreed, but this isn't a thread about marketing. Its a thread about the need of a Wizard in 4e being just like a Cleric was needed in 3e. I removed the link to my blog review several posts ago. If you want to talk about RPG marketing start a new thread and I'll gladly join in.

 

[Ander00]

I must admit I don't get the premise of the thread. I can't claim to be an expert on previous editions, but why would you specifically need a cleric in third edition, with the druid in the PHB, and classes like the archivist, crusader and favored soul in splat books? Also, with in-combat healing typically not being all that great except for Heal, anyone able to use a wand could pretty much take over his job.

Yes, in 4E, fighting a bunch of minions or swarms will probably take longer without a wizard, but he isn't that special. He just has more varied (and supposedly better, though that isn't always the case) options when it comes to area effects, but most classes have some of their own.


cheers

 

[JVisgaitis]

I must admit I don't get the premise of the thread. I can't claim to be an expert on previous editions, but why would you specifically need a cleric in third edition, with the druid in the PHB, and classes like the archivist, crusader and favored soul in splat books?

I'm talking Core Rulebooks. All we'll have come Friday is what's in the PHB. Expert or not, you can't tell me that the Druid was as good at healing as a Cleric was. And I'm not sure if the Wizard/Controller is necessary in 4e as I haven't played without one hence the whole point of this thread.

In any case, my wife's Wizard was VERY useful. WotC said the game plays best with one of each type. I just find it odd that while they are saying they don't want to force a player to be a class they don't want to be, they only give us one Controller class.

Contradicting, no?

 

[GSHamster]

I think you are missing the innate popularity of each class. Healers tend to be a rather unpopular class, while wizards tend to be fairly popular. One controller class, if it is popular enough, can balance two less-popular leader classes.

I'll use WoW numbers as an example, because I am more familiar with them. In WoW, 4 of 9 classes can heal (44%). Yet most of the game is balanced around 20-30% healers. And even then, healers are in high demand.

Just simplistic class balance (2 strikers, 2 controllers, etc.) is not enough to guarantee character balance.

 

[Rechan]

No need to use numbers.

The 3e CoDzilla was intentionally created because people hated playing the cleric, by and large. The cleric was made a badass to encourage other players to pick up the "Healer" mantle. That's why spontaneous heals and such were invented, so the cleric could have badass spells and still do the healer thing.

 

[Ander00]

I'm talking Core Rulebooks. All we'll have come Friday is what's in the PHB. Expert or not, you can't tell me that the Druid was as good at healing as a Cleric was.

I'm not trying to tell you that. There's a difference between being needed and being the best at something (which they still are). The druid was a powerful class that could heal pretty well but not as well as a cleric. Not all that different from a warlord nowadays. I've seen druids, bards, archivists, favored souls, psions, crusaders, paladins, rangers and even rogues being the party's main healer. You will note that a lot of these classes are from the Core Rulebooks. None of those parties were doomed to failure just due to the lack of a cleric.

And I'm not sure if the Wizard/Controller is necessary in 4e as I haven't played without one hence the whole point of this thread. In any case, my wife's Wizard was VERY useful.

Not saying they're not useful, but they are hardly as necessary as you think the cleric used to be in third edition. At least it seemed that was the point you originally were trying to make.

WotC said the game plays best with one of each type. I just find it odd that while they are saying they don't want to force a player to be a class they don't want to be, they only give us one Controller class. Contradicting, no?

Not so much, no. The controller isn't as imporant as say, the enchanter in EverQuest was (though even there, creative use of abilities could often circumvent this "need"). This is a good thing. I don't see any parties falling apart just because nobody wanted to play a wizard, but a party that includes one will have an easier time of some situations.


cheers

 

[Kichwas]

Somewhat a thread jack but...

I'm not convinced 4E has a wizard class.








Look at it. Remove the name, and think about what 3E its mechanics remind you of. To me, I thought... Sorcerer.


What always made a DnD wizard a wizard in my mind was being able to run out there and learn new spells on the fly from finding them, usually on scrolls, or paying some loon in the next village to send you on an acid trip having something to do with Bigby and his groping hands...

The 4e Wizard, I'd wager, is really the Sorcerer. Mark off one more core iconic DnD class as no longer in the game: Wizard, added to the list of Monk, Druid, Assassin, et all.

 

[Rechan]

What always made a DnD wizard a wizard in my mind was being able to run out there and learn new spells on the fly from finding them, usually on scrolls, or paying some loon in the next village to send you on an acid trip having something to do with Bigby and his groping hands...

Rituals.

Learn from scrolls, learn from anythin' really. You even get a book you put them in.

You're supposed to go hunt down rituals, et al.

 

[Shemeska]

I've never actually been in a game where anyone has ever complained about being "stuck" playing the cleric. I have had too many people want to play clerics and the DM asked someone to do something else just so they didn't step on each others toes in terms of abilities, or in-game issues of conflicting faiths.

Maybe it's just because I started in 3e, but clerics have been some of my favorite characters to play (both for range of abilities and for the in-character hooks and motivations inherent in playing a divine servitor).

 

[JVisgaitis]

I've never actually been in a game where anyone has ever complained about being "stuck" playing the cleric.

Where were you and all your friends last edition?