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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9130910" data-attributes="member: 93670">While that might be true in some respects about mixing, there's also the elephant crawford dropped in the more recent video where he explained the wizard's strength &amp; identity to be their spell list.&nbsp; That's not a new or different strength &amp; identity from the 2014 wizard, just one that has been stated openly like the sorcerer's often stated &quot;wizard but hot&quot; rather than being left to guess. With the strength &amp; identity shifted from &quot;I guess... sorcerer but not hot&quot; to a defined thing it allows clear discussion about if the class has been meeting the bar for that since 2014 or not along with why it does or does not meet it.&nbsp; Even if you limit the analysis strictly to 2014 rules or 2014+the splatbooks we've seen since the 2014 wizard's ritual caster ability is in no way capable of contributing enough to even consider if the <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&amp;filter-class=8&amp;filter-search=&amp;filter-verbal=&amp;filter-somatic=&amp;filter-material=&amp;filter-concentration=&amp;filter-ritual=t&amp;filter-sub-class=&amp;filter-partnered-content=f" target="_blank">ritual spells available </a>alone are capable of meeting that bar firmly enough to justify how much overlap there is in their spell list.&nbsp; Since it never met the bar &amp; people were bringing up the value of ritual caster for the wizard as a big deal I don't think it's reasonable to just dismiss the strong indications that everyone is likely to be getting ritual spellcasting as well in the neat future.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9130910, member: 93670"] While that might be true in some respects about mixing, there's also the elephant crawford dropped in the more recent video where he explained the wizard's strength & identity to be their spell list. That's not a new or different strength & identity from the 2014 wizard, just one that has been stated openly like the sorcerer's often stated "[I]wizard but hot[/I]" rather than being left to guess. With the strength & identity shifted from "I [I]guess...[/I] sorcerer but [I]not[/I] hot" to a defined thing it allows clear discussion about if the class has been meeting the bar for that since 2014 or not along with why it does or does not meet it. Even if you limit the analysis strictly to 2014 rules or 2014+the splatbooks we've seen since the 2014 wizard's ritual caster ability is in no way capable of contributing enough to even consider if the [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-class=8&filter-search=&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=t&filter-sub-class=&filter-partnered-content=f']ritual spells available [/URL]alone are capable of meeting that bar firmly enough to justify how much overlap there is in their spell list. Since it never met the bar & people were bringing up the value of ritual caster for the wizard as a big deal I don't think it's reasonable to just dismiss the strong indications that everyone is likely to be getting ritual spellcasting as well in the neat future. [/QUOTE]

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