Wizards Shouldn't Get Spells Automatically, A Modest Proposal

[dmccoy1693]

In my latest blog, I am making the case that Wizards should not get spells automatically. Tell me what you think. Do you think I am crazy or that I am onto something?

 

[I'm A Banana]

When I clicked on the thread, I thought it was going to be about treating spells as treasure, which is an interesting idea with some deep history in D&D.

Turns out it's mostly about horizontal vs. vertical advancement.

To which I'd say: sure. Your idea about adding effects to spells is a fine way to limit vertical advancement (it's metamagic feats without adding spell levels!).

It's not D&D, and it doesn't interest me personally that much, so it's not The Solution, but it's a broadly functional concept.

I think the premise you start from might be a little flawed, though. Spellcasters didn't "become a problem" for some in 3e because they had vertically powerful spells (usually, they weren't THAT vertically powerful), but because they had (a) spells that could replace other party members, (b) spells that would functionally never run out (even if they theoretically could), and (c) spells that do things that no other party member is capable of doing.

You don't need to limit vertical advancement to limit spellcaster power. You need to strictly limit and account for what a given spell can do, and account for longer-term resource use. Which is a bit of a more complex problem.

Also: personally disappointed about the lack of eating babies in this thread.

 

[Minigiant]

Sounds like something that could be done via a theme with metamagic.

Customizing spell was never really a D&D thing.

But yes, wizards shouldn't get spells automatically. It encourages always picking the "best spells".

 

[DreamChaser]

Sounds like something that could be done via a theme with metamagic.

Customizing spell was never really a D&D thing.

But yes, wizards shouldn't get spells automatically. It encourages always picking the "best spells".

In the same way that fighters getting feats automatically encourages always getting the best feats?

If the rules don't have spell advancement built in then it is up the the whim of the DM to ensure that wizards don't end up at 8th level with only their 1st level spell complement. Meanwhile, fighters will continue getting class and theme abilities regardless of the DM.

This does not balance make IMHO.

DC

 

[Minigiant]

In the same way that fighters getting feats automatically encourages always getting the best feats?

If the rules don't have spell advancement built in then it is up the the whim of the DM to ensure that wizards don't end up at 8th level with only their 1st level spell complement. Meanwhile, fighters will continue getting class and theme abilities regardless of the DM.

This does not balance make IMHO.

DC

Lol. Fighters HAD to pick the best feats in 3rd or anyone with more that 5 HP a level outclassed them.

I was always in the starting spell are chosen, later spells are treasure, researched, or purchased. The same for fighters and fighter feats.


In 5E, perhaps there is a theme that grants spells.

 

[dd.stevenson]

Overall, I find myself agreeing with KM--this is a fine, workable idea. But it doesn't conform to my idea of what D&D is. Perhaps others will see it differently.

So last week we read in Legends and Lore that Fighters are not going to automatically get better with each level.

My understanding is that fighter damage will rise each level, even if their to-hit chance will not. So I would argue that your starting premise is false.

 

[andargor]

The best method of getting spells on level up that we ever used in 1e/2e was random rolling for them

Made for interesting builds, and lots of RP.

 

[Tovec]

Lol. Fighters HAD to pick the best feats in 3rd or anyone with more that 5 HP a level outclassed them.

I was always in the starting spell are chosen, later spells are treasure, researched, or purchased. The same for fighters and fighter feats.


In 5E, perhaps there is a theme that grants spells.

I agree but tell me how you would do it and let KM still call it "DnD" when its finished.

The feeling of DnD in this situation is that wizards get spells, for free and per day (if not faster).
When you change that and force them to find all spells as treasure or research them then people are going to start calling foul.

They'll say how fighters get feats automatically but wizards have to find their spells is unfair. I don't agree with the sentiment but I wonder what solution you would find to this objection.

Along with having to find the spells, I would also allow for a failure chance to learn the spell. It can be small and almost always beatable but if we are going to force wizards (and possibly clerics, druids and sorcerers?) to find their spells I think it only makes sense if they can fail in learning them too.

Once again, I want to say I like the idea. I just don't know how you execute it without people complaining about its fairness, equality, or "feeling".

 

[Minigiant]

I agree but tell me how you would do it and let KM still call it "DnD" when its finished.

The feeling of DnD in this situation is that wizards get spells, for free and per day (if not faster).
When you change that and force them to find all spells as treasure or research them then people are going to start calling foul.

They'll say how fighters get feats automatically but wizards have to find their spells is unfair. I don't agree with the sentiment but I wonder what solution you would find to this objection.

Along with having to find the spells, I would also allow for a failure chance to learn the spell. It can be small and almost always beatable but if we are going to force wizards (and possibly clerics, druids and sorcerers?) to find their spells I think it only makes sense if they can fail in learning them too.

Once again, I want to say I like the idea. I just don't know how you execute it without people complaining about its fairness, equality, or "feeling".

At character creation wizards get X spells and fighters get X techniques

New spells and techniques are learned

• From scrolls as treasure
• From purchased scrolls
• From shared knowledge and training (requires downtime)
• From research (around 1 per 3 levels or so)
• From themes

 

[Doug McCrae]

If I had the option, I think I'd choose to take invisibility, fly, teleport and the like over a magic missile that deals more damage.