WoG timeline rollback suggestions (OK, is that better?)

[Wolfspider]

Particular things that bugged me: the sets of alliances made and broken in the Greyhawk wars; Iuz successfully impersonating a Suel god to take control of the various Barbarian kingdoms; the sudden and widespread success of the Scarlet Brotherhood in taking over kingdoms; the Circle of Eight's virtual annihilation; heck, the Circle of Eight-where did that come from? I don't even know ...

Well, none of these things caused me to bat an eyelash, so it must just be your own personal preference.

And that's fine. WoG may not be suited for your style of play anymore. KoK looks like a good place to start. You also might want to look at the Scarred Lands setting.

Good luck finding something that suites you!

 

[Red Baron]

Greyhawk has the advantage of familiarity for me-the name change to D&D (dropping the 'Advanced' and 'Basic' D&D labels) is a full-circle one for me, because that's how it was when I started playing. Greyhawk was the first published campaign world I ever used, because it was the first published campaign world. My longest-run player-character ever was a human ranger who travelled virtually every inch of the western half of the Flanaess-I still remember with pride how he won an honorary knighthood from the Knights of the High Forest, which would no doubt have been an actual knighthood had he been an elf. There are fond memories there, not to mention significant familiarity.

Perhaps we should start a support group for old-school, back-in-the-day GH players whose first long-term characters were rangers. (Mine retired at 22nd-level, a Knight of the Hart of Furyondy, and my oldest and dearest character. He's been translated into every version/edition of the game, and even into several other game systems.)

Seriously, though, I feel much the same way about the Greyhawk setting -- the 'new age' of the setting doesn't appeal muchto me at all. If I were to run a GH game again, I'd keep it CY c576-80 for sure.

 

[corndog]

Particular things that bugged me: the sets of alliances made and broken in the Greyhawk wars;

Wars have a funny habit of causing alliances that die out shortly after or are shattered by treachery. To me, this makes the wars seem more real.

Iuz successfully impersonating a Suel god to take control of the various Barbarian kingdoms;

Iuz is a god himself you know...
I seem to remember something in history about the Aztecs mistaking Cortez and his men for gods and that leading to their downfall and conquest by Spain. This isn't that far fetched.

the sudden and widespread success of the Scarlet Brotherhood in taking over kingdoms;

Sudden?
The SB has always been explained as having its hands in the governments of many nations through spies, assassins and thieves. Taking advantage of the turmoil and seizing power doesn't strike me as too out of character for them. I was somewhat annoyed by the sudden appearance of massive SB armies and naval fleets, but that problem is in the execution, not the idea.

the Circle of Eight's virtual annihilation; heck, the Circle of Eight-where did that come from? I don't even know ...

The circle of 8 is a fairly old GH idea, stemming from the original citadel of 5 (i think that's what it was called) power group from the original Gygax era campaign.

Rary goes traitor. Tenser dies and is ressurected. Otiluke dies. Jallarzi, Alhamazad and Theodain join the ranks. Virtual annihilation? I think you're overstating the events.

Greyhawk was the first published campaign world I ever used, because it was the first published campaign world.

If you want to get technical, that's incorrect
Empire of the Petal Throne/Tekumel was first.


If you don't like every detail of current GH, thats fine, as others have said, you can ignore what you feel doesn't fit. I do have to concur with the sentiment that this was a troll though, since it came off as the tired old 'old gh good! new gh bad!' mentality, and you didn't even point out any details of what you don't like.

 

[Plane Sailing]

[BIf you want to get technical, that's incorrect
Empire of the Petal Throne/Tekumel was first. [/B]

Well, if you want to get *really* technical, Empire of the Petal Throne wasn't D&D - after all, you rolled d100 for your (different set of) attributes

Loved it as a game though - we had some real fun with it back then.

Cheers

 

[Henry]

Rary goes traitor. Tenser dies and is ressurected. Otiluke dies. Jallarzi, Alhamazad and Theodain join the ranks. Virtual annihilation? I think you're overstating the events.

To be technically correct, the Circle of Eight DID die in the Module Vecna Lives! - It's just that they all had clones on the back burner to undo that little mini-catastrophe.

The Circle of Eight is changed by half it's rank nowadays - remember that Warnes Starcoat was not an original member, either - He was originally a pregenerated PC from Isle of the Ape. So Jallarzi, Alhamazad, Theodain, and Warnes are new: Rary, Tenser, Otiluke, and one other are out of it now. (Who was it? Otto? Melf? Leomund?)

The original Eight:
Otto
Bigby
Rary
Drawmij
Mordenkainen
Otiluke
Tenser
Who am I missing?

 

[Wolfspider]

Nystul.

 

[chatdemon]

To be technically correct, the Circle of Eight DID die in the Module Vecna Lives! - It's just that they all had clones on the back burner to undo that little mini-catastrophe.


None of which is mentioned in the current setting material. I had forgotten about it because it is so easily ignored. The Rary the Traitor plotline is canon now, and I don't think that is a bad thing at all. They took a few of the boring old wizards with household names out and put in a more diverse group of replacements to give the Circle more flavor.

And come on, I mean, this is a D&D setting, right? D&D rules allow for such things as clones and ressurections. I'm sure every one of us has, or has known someone who had a PC or NPC in a game they were in pull the same stunt to escape death. Why then is it so taboo for the GH designers to do the same?

 

[cildarith]

I do have to concur with the sentiment that this was a troll though, since it came off as the tired old 'old gh good! new gh bad!' mentality, and you didn't even point out any details of what you don't like.

So if you don't like new GH you are a Troll. Nice!

 

[NLP]

So if you don't like new GH you are a Troll. Nice!

No, a troll is someone who intentionally tries to draw someone into an argument.

 

[Ulrick]

Christian: So why are you considering "upgrading" your campaign setting to 3e

Personally, I am an avid fan of Greyhawk. And currently I am running a campaign in that world. However, I do have a homebrew setting just waiting to be expanded on and used. The only reason why I am running the Greyhawk Campaign is because I simply have adventures and material for it. I haven't the time to expand on my setting. Ironically, however, whenever I come up with a new I idea for Greyhawk it seems to also wind up in my own setting's "Idea Notebook."

If you have the time, run your own setting. Its worth time to upgrade. And it is a very rewarding.

Besides, that way you don't have to spend money on campaign settings only to realize that they're bogus. You can tailor your world to your needs, likes, and dislikes.

Ulrick