Wonderful, broken Simulacrum

[Rystil Arden]

True, but the Pit Fiend can't keep the tax collector talking while you and your friends run out the back!

Sure he can.

As long as the Tax Collector is level 4 or below, the fiend can just use a Blasphemy to paralyse him with no save. Otherwise, Fireball at will. And if you really need to not kill the poor Tax Collector, well, that's where your pet succubus simu's Polymorph and Suggestion powers come in.

 

[IcyCool]

If you don't have something better to dupe, then duping yourself is a pretty good deal (though you'll have to worry about the simu getting killed, unlike the Pit Fiend simu which only takes subdual damage except from silver+holy weapons).

Actually, I was under the impression that the Simulacrum couldn't heal any damage without the special ritual. It makes no distinction between lethal and subdual.

 

[Rystil Arden]

That's the funny thing. The rules don't actually say that it can't heal itself. They only say that there's a special ritual that can heal it for gold. This leaves a wide problem of interpretation. In my opinion, if the base creature has Regeneration or Fast Healing, it can get its HP back, and otherwise you need to do the ritual, but that's just my opinion, as there are no hard rules at all. You might also rule that any creature that can't heal on its own must be immune to subdual (because all creatures like that other than simus are immune), if you wanted.

 

[RuminDange]

I was going to point out that the only Sim I've seen from WOTC was in a Dungeon Adventure I think called Headless. But that is 3.0 rules, and it had like 5 Sims of the main villian spellcaster and few others in it as well.

So it is nice to know they use one in Frostburn (which I don't have yet) so that we have examples, but I afraid the debate has left me confused.

What is actual result of Simming an Old Black Dragon?
A) An Old Black Dragon with only 1/2 Hit Dice of Original but all other abilities equal to Original
B) A Black Dragon with 1/2 Hit Dice of Original with abilities adjusted for the new hit dice
C) I've missed something

RD

 

[JimAde]

I was going to point out that the only Sim I've seen from WOTC was in a Dungeon Adventure I think called Headless. But that is 3.0 rules, and it had like 5 Sims of the main villian spellcaster and few others in it as well.

So it is nice to know they use one in Frostburn (which I don't have yet) so that we have examples, but I afraid the debate has left me confused.

What is actual result of Simming an Old Black Dragon?
A) An Old Black Dragon with only 1/2 Hit Dice of Original but all other abilities equal to Original
B) A Black Dragon with 1/2 Hit Dice of Original with abilities adjusted for the new hit dice
C) I've missed something

RD

Please let's not start that again.

My take is that you cut the HD in half, remove enough skill ranks, feats, etc. to make it come out right, and keep all other abilities (modifying DCs, etc. for the new HD). This is not quite the same as advancing the creature in reverse because you don't change its size or stats (except to drop the additions that come every 4 HD).

 

[F5]

So, question: Would it be worthwhile to Sim yourself? Say you are a 13th-level wizard (minimum to cast the spell). Would it be worth 1000 xp to have a perfectly loyal 7th-level follower who can cast up to 4th level spells and stand in for you in some situations? I'd have to say yes. In fact it would probably be worthwhile to have a few of them.

I had another question: What happens to simulacra if the creator dies? Do they melt? Are they free-willed? They can never grow more powerful or develop, but do they age? That Instantaneous duration leaves a lot of questions unanswered.

And what are the requirements for the repair ritual? Can the sim do it himself if the resources are available?

Questions, questions questions...

I think it's worthwhile to Sim yourself. Mecahnically speaking, your 7th-level sim is not very powerful. But it can be really useful from a role-playing standpoint. Having a cohort or follower to run errands is useful, having a second YOU lets you be devious.

Of course, in almost every case it's better to Sim a creature that can make itself look just like you, and still do lots of other stuff. I was going to mention a Dragon with Alternate Form abilities, but I'm afraid to mention dragons in this thread again ( ), so let's say a polymorphing Planetar instead.

If you Sim yourself, you have a dupe of your entire skill set, too, so assuming you're relatively good at what you do, it should be trivial for your Sim to be able to give you an Aid Another bonus to just about any skill.

The healing/regenerating thing I'm still not sure about, but I'm leaning toward a "Sim's can't heal any damage" interperetation of the spell's intent...otherwise why call out that you need to pay 100gp per hit die to repair it, when you could just cast Heal on it and be done? If the intent was just that it doesn't heal damage naturally over time, they could have simply said this.

This makes the Sim almost completely a non-combat entity. It works great for running your affairs while you're out of town, or as a cheap source of SLAs, but you don't want to risk it getting damaged in a fight. I'm not sold on this interperetation, though, so please convince me I'm wrong

As for what happens to a Sim when the character that created it dies...it just keeps going. The creator doesn't directly control it, the Sim just obeys unquestioningly. It may not do much, but it won't melt away. (Note to self...order any and all Sims that I create that in the event of my death, have me Raised...).

Here's another thought...the Sim is static and unchanging from the moment it's created. Does that mean it doesn't age? Is a Sumulacrum immortal?

 

[F5]

You know what would make the issue of healing Simulacra easier? If they aquired the construct type. It seems to make sense, per the SRD a construct is "an animated object or an artificially created creature", which seems to fit. As for healing, the SRD says a construct "—Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of
the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality. (emphasis mine).

The craft construct feat lets you repair damage to a construct for 50gp per hp, but only up to a maximum on 20 per day. Similar mechanics to reparing a Simulacrum, but not the same.

So there's precedent, kind of. Giving Simulacra the construct type also adds a ton of changes (immunity to critical hits, no CON, different BAB and saves, immunity to mind-effect, and so on and so on...). That may be an Iron Golem full of worms that we don't want to open, either. And if you could create a construct with all the abilities of a Pit Fiend for 1800 gp and XP, why would you ever want to create an Iron Golem for 80,000 gp and 1600xp? I think I just talked myself out of this idea...

 

[Jack Simth]

Here's another thought...the Sim is static and unchanging from the moment it's created. Does that mean it doesn't age? Is a Sumulacrum immortal?

Doesn't advance and doesn't age are slightly differnt things. Moreover, non-aging is NOT immortality (just a portion of it - for a REAL immortal, look up the ghost template and add it to anything with 15 HD - if it rolls a 1 on it's Rejuvination roll, it comes back (DC 16) 2d4 days later - similar to a lich, but without the reliance on some object, no alignment restrictions, and several other differences).

 

[Jack Simth]

There are simulacra in one of the adventures in the Frostburn book. While I haven't done an exhaustive point by point analysis, it seems to agree with Rystil Arden's interpretation (which also is my interpretation - my comment seems to have touched off this debate).

Now that qualifies. Congrats. I conceed the specific point.

 

[ARandomGod]

Moment of Prescience, Sor/Wiz/Luck 8; 1 hour/level, minimum caster level 15, works on any Opposed skill check ONCE. As the Disguise roll is for opposition at a later date, it should work.

Yes, but if you look at that spell, carefully, you'll discover that it's either 1) very underpowered 2) or very overpriced at 8th level.

It's a carryover spell from 2E. In that incarnation it was very, very powerful.