Woohoo! And questions...

[takyris]

Finally got to unwrap my copy of d20 Modern -- yay, wife!

I had a question, though -- given my players, if they're poor ordinary people who suddenly have to deal with evil bad guys, I know that they're not going to have any truck with improvised weapons. The very first thing they're going to do involves going to Big 5 Sports and the gardening section of Orchard Supply Hardware.

So what do you guys use, or are you planning to use, for things like a:

- Baseball bat? Feels like it should be better than an average club, given that it's larger than the average police club, but having a medium weapon that does 1d8 seems to be too powerful. Can you use a baseball bat with one hand, or should it be classified as large? It ain't a Claymore, but maybe it's too large for one hand...

- Sledgehammer? Maybe 1d8 and have it be large, since it isn't built for combat?

- Average gardening implement, like a pitchfork? I was thinking of making them basically large weapons that did 1d8.

On the one hand, yes, these are technically improvised weapons. But on the other hand, a baseball bat is designed to be light, strong, and able to HIT things. And just about every martial arts weapon that ain't a sword was originally gardening equipment of some sort -- sais were spades, the tonfa was a grain-mill handle, the 'chucks were threshing flails, etc.

Anyway, the book is great, love the art, love the rules, and really psyched about playing.

-Tacky

 

[Ranger REG]

- Baseball bat? Feels like it should be better than an average club, given that it's larger than the average police club, but having a medium weapon that does 1d8 seems to be too powerful. Can you use a baseball bat with one hand, or should it be classified as large? It ain't a Claymore, but maybe it's too large for one hand...

Sorry, but it has the same stat as club. You only need to wield it two-handed and gain the x1.5 Str bonus to weapon damage. It is crafted to hit a ball out of the park, not a head off the shoulders.

On the one hand, yes, these are technically improvised weapons. But on the other hand, a baseball bat is designed to be light, strong, and able to HIT things. And just about every martial arts weapon that ain't a sword was originally gardening equipment of some sort -- sais were spades,...

Spades?

...the tonfa was a grain-mill handle, the 'chucks were threshing flails, etc.

Anyway, the book is great, love the art, love the rules, and really psyched about playing.[/B]

Well, most exotic martial arts weapons have their origins rooted in peasants' farming tools, they improve the design to be more combat-ready. For example, a regular pitchfork is basically a tree limb with small, curved branches which acts as tines (or prongs) , a military fork is crafted using metal (bronze, iron, or steel) and have straight tines.

 

[takyris]

Re: Re: Woohoo! And questions...

Sorry, but it has the same stat as club. You only need to wield it two-handed and gain the x1.5 Str bonus to weapon damage. It is crafted to hit a ball out of the park, not a head off the shoulders.

Heh. S'a good point. I kept veering between "It's just a club" and "But it's better than a policeman's nightstick", which is what they describe. Maybe if someone blows a bunch of money on a REALLY GOOD bat, I'll make it masterwork.

Thanks for the opinion.


Spades?


Probably the wrong word. Go into a hardware store and look for something like a weed-digger-outer, a pronged doodad that you thrust into soft ground and yank back and forth to get to the roots of the weeds. Some of them look like forks. A sai was the ancient version of this, until some pinhead samurai decided to test out his katana on the locals. Those tines, which work so well at trapping blades, were originally for rooting out weeds.

"Spade" was the closest word I had offhand.


"For example, a regular pitchfork is basically a tree limb with small, curved branches which acts as tines (or prongs) , a military fork is crafted using metal (bronze, iron, or steel) and have straight tines.

That's an excellent point -- and if my campaign were in ancient Asia, I'd concede. But if my campaign is in the modern U.S. of A., the pitchfork I buy from Orchard Supply Hardware is going to be a well-balanced instrument of destruction, with a comfortable rubber grip, smoothly curving stainless steel tines, and a money-back guarantee.
Really. (And I'm being tongue-in-cheek here -- no offense is intended, and I hope I'm not coming off that way. Just making sure.)

My martial art makes us choose new weapons to learn -- any weapon, ANYTHING. And we learn another weapon for each belt rank after first black. The first few belts, I ordered expensive weapons from magazines. Most of them ended up being garbage, suitable for wall-hanging at best. For a well-balanced weapon meant to take a beating, I was better off going to the hardware store and hunting around for a gardening tool with some sharp pokey bits that I could adapt as a weapon.

I guess my point is that if my players are running from zombies and they stumble into an old shed, and one of them grabs an old rusted pitchfork whose tines are loose on the haft, I'm gonna say, "Yep, it's large, and it does 1d6 piercing, and it's a piece of garbage, so you're at -4 to hit," just like any improvised weapon.

But if they're putting some thought into it, I want to reward them. A newly bought, high-quality pitchfork should be a bit better.

-Tacky

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Tacky,

I understand what you're getting at. But even today, if you were to compare a modern improvised weapon (the pitchfork) with a modern actual weapon (say, a longsword), I'd say there's a difference in performance. After all, no matter how well-built, a gardening pitchfork is still balanced and built for gardening, not skewering the forces of evil.

If I were the DM, I might waive the -4 penalty for improvized weapons in the case of the pitchfork bought at Orchard's. After all, it was an intentional purchase of an object as a weapon, and the PC would thus likely get the opportunity to try out the weapon, get a feel for its balance, etc. Things you wouldn't get to do if you just picked up an old pitchfork in a shed as you were running from zombies.

I wouldn't increase the damage, though. Even if you get a feel for it, a pitchfork (or a baseball bat) is still not a tool built as a weapon. You're still trying to coax damage out of something that wasn't designed with that in mind.

Now, if a PC wanted to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Baseball Bat or EWP: Pitchfork, then I might bump up the damage die, as the weapon proficiency would signify a great deal of training with the weapon, and the knowledge necessary to coax the last bit of damage-dealing potential from it.