Words aren't enough, are they?
- Thread starter Ry
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jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
rycanada said:
Not entirely. I think that's a reasonable assumption based on the large swaths of generica that make up the most popular fantasy settings at the current time. That said, I think that originality does count for something, if continued interest in settings like Arcanis are any indicator. Here is a setting that, while far from sporting bargain basement layout and design, pales in that regard when stacked next to the glossy-paged, hardcover, offspring of WotC. Yet it still generates enough interest to warrant continued product support. So, in short, while crazy high production values are a huge part of the equation, they aren't the whole equation.
BigFreekinGoblinoid
First Post
Yes, Ryan, I'd have to say you are correct. That's not the only prerequisite in terms of my attention however. Originality is key too. I just don't need another quasi-medieval human centric feudal world with periphery elves, dwarves and dragons.
Irda Ranger
First Post
Why can't you? Art and glossy paper can be bought on the free market. Good writing is free (with a lot of hard work). Put the three together, and 'voila', high production value.rycanada said:
I'm not saying it's easy, but there's no inherent reason you can't. WotC, White Wolf, etc. have marketing departments and long-standing relationships with printers and brand recognition and lots of smart employees ... but those are "advantages", or differences in degree, not kind.
Asmor
First Post
Production values definitely matter, maybe even more so than content.
For example, I absolutely hate the feeling of rough paper. It gives me goosebumps, almost like fingernails on a chalkboard. That's one of the things I love about Wizards, they use smooth, glossy paper that feels great to the touch.
This isn't to say that poor-quality paper's a deal breaker for me, but it's one of many factors... It's true that you can't judge a book by its cover, but if a book doesn't attract me and make me want to read it, then it doesn't matter how amazing the material within is.
For example, I absolutely hate the feeling of rough paper. It gives me goosebumps, almost like fingernails on a chalkboard. That's one of the things I love about Wizards, they use smooth, glossy paper that feels great to the touch.
This isn't to say that poor-quality paper's a deal breaker for me, but it's one of many factors... It's true that you can't judge a book by its cover, but if a book doesn't attract me and make me want to read it, then it doesn't matter how amazing the material within is.
Irda Ranger
First Post
It's funny, but I'd rather have "real" rough paper with clear type and clearer writing than smooth paper with WotC's faux tome style. I know that isn't what you were getting at, but it just occurred to me how "high production value" is subjective.Asmor said:
Shortman McLeod
First Post
Irda Ranger said:
You're absolutely right. All he needs is thousands of dollars and a team of professional artists and graphic designers!
MoogleEmpMog
First Post
Actually, all he needs is a talented (not necessarily pro) graphic designer, at least one pro or semi-pro artist, and a sound business model. The only one of those that is all but guaranteed to cost him is the artist, although if he doesn't have a good grasp of design that will also get pricey.
I've seen it said in design circles that most RPGs are heavily over-illustrated, and this rings true. One prolific artist or a small group with strong art direction (something the vast majority of even the glossiest RPGs lack) should be more than enough to illustrate an RPG release asked about here, which is to say a d20-derived one.
The most important piece of art you'll ever need is the cover. If the cover isn't both extremely good and at least as original as the material within, you may as well pack up, production values-wise.
If you have to make a production compromise, skimp on the hard back in favor of perfect binding and better quality paper (rough vs. glossy is more a matter of taste than it is of production values, but quality will out). Black and white interiors executed to a high standard and a really good full-color cover, rather than color throughout but a compromise in art quality. Better art rather than more. Sound design principles - make good use of white space, make the text readable. Clear but flavorful writing.
Anyone who has the resources to seriously consider trying to get a printed product into stores, with all the production costs that entails, should have the understanding that you can dump money into your art and design budgets till the cows come home and not come close to the expense of printing and producing even the lowest quality products.
I've seen it said in design circles that most RPGs are heavily over-illustrated, and this rings true. One prolific artist or a small group with strong art direction (something the vast majority of even the glossiest RPGs lack) should be more than enough to illustrate an RPG release asked about here, which is to say a d20-derived one.
The most important piece of art you'll ever need is the cover. If the cover isn't both extremely good and at least as original as the material within, you may as well pack up, production values-wise.
If you have to make a production compromise, skimp on the hard back in favor of perfect binding and better quality paper (rough vs. glossy is more a matter of taste than it is of production values, but quality will out). Black and white interiors executed to a high standard and a really good full-color cover, rather than color throughout but a compromise in art quality. Better art rather than more. Sound design principles - make good use of white space, make the text readable. Clear but flavorful writing.
Anyone who has the resources to seriously consider trying to get a printed product into stores, with all the production costs that entails, should have the understanding that you can dump money into your art and design budgets till the cows come home and not come close to the expense of printing and producing even the lowest quality products.
Herobizkit
Adventurer
What I think he needs is something that "isn't" D&D to get my attention.
Products like Blue Rose/True 20, Etherscope, and Deadlands d20 got my attention real quick, for example.
These are products that aren't afraid, rather, encourage stepping away from the tired old "ye olde elfs and dwarfs" of Western Europe.
There was another product that started PCs in a pseudo-North American area circa colonial times, but the name escapes me. Same folks that made the Nyambe schtick.
[Edit: Oh yeah. Northern Crown.]
Products like Blue Rose/True 20, Etherscope, and Deadlands d20 got my attention real quick, for example.
These are products that aren't afraid, rather, encourage stepping away from the tired old "ye olde elfs and dwarfs" of Western Europe.
There was another product that started PCs in a pseudo-North American area circa colonial times, but the name escapes me. Same folks that made the Nyambe schtick.
[Edit: Oh yeah. Northern Crown.]
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Particle_Man
Explorer
It is tricky to walk the tightrope between "new just for the sake of being new" and "same old same old".
That said, if you made a setting that solved some of the on-going issues people have, that might be interesting.
A setting where it is codified as to what paladins can and cannot do, exactly, in every situation that has ever come up on enworld. A special order of paladins with a well-written code would do it.
A setting that says what to do with orc babies, and the like.
That kind of thing would be interesting. You could just go through all the old threads and see if you setting could provide an answer (not *the* answer, just *an* answer for your setting).
That said, if you made a setting that solved some of the on-going issues people have, that might be interesting.
A setting where it is codified as to what paladins can and cannot do, exactly, in every situation that has ever come up on enworld. A special order of paladins with a well-written code would do it.
A setting that says what to do with orc babies, and the like.
That kind of thing would be interesting. You could just go through all the old threads and see if you setting could provide an answer (not *the* answer, just *an* answer for your setting).
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